House cats - Cruel?!

[Littlebobo]

Have to say that i agree with everything that Diddydawn has said I would love nothing more than for my four to venture out in the great outdoors but after losing one to an RTA and another to susppicious circumstances it has left me to be what i feel no choice but to keep them indoors they all have tys and scratching posts galore etc ...

If i was able to be sure that the roads were safe and that people could be trusted then i would have no problems sadly most people dont love cats like we do and most of them are ignorant and cruel  ....

[Sabrina (Auferstehen)]

Not in Bradford, but not too far, Cats Protection in Leeds understand and will adopt to indoor homes where the cat(s) and people are suitable. Might be tricky for a homecheck, but worth a try.
http://www.catsprotectionadel.org.uk/

2 years ago or so when we were looking for a young cat I emailed them asking about a cat on their site and once I told them the road I lived on they would not let me adopt though I specifically said I would never let a cat outside.

I hope they've changed since then.

[J (Indoorcatsuk)]

I live in Bradford, we're looking for kittens primarily (any age) just so we can try raise them as house cats from being young but if anyone knows of any older house cats that need a home we'd be more than happy to help.

Not in Bradford, but not too far, Cats Protection in Leeds understand and will adopt to indoor homes where the cat(s) and people are suitable. Might be tricky for a homecheck, but worth a try.
http://www.catsprotectionadel.org.uk/

[Ela]

There is a long incubation period (months to years) from infection with FeLV to development of disease. However 85 out of 100 FeLV infected cats die within 3.5 years of becoming infected.

I too have read your findings, although as you know some cats have been known to shread FeLV a while after testiing FeLV+. What I would say is that I am sure  many people who adopt 'normal seemingly well' cats and then lose them would have been happy for them to live 3.5 yrs. So many do not make it to that age.

As posted in another topic, we in our branch of Cats Protection have noticed a huge reduction in the number of cats we are hearing about FeLV+ and  I cannot remember when we last had a cat test FeLV poss certainly not in the last few years. which is wonderful news. Same the same cannot be said for FIV, it is frightening how many cases I am hearing about every week.

[CurlyCatz]

Ela re that bit you posted with my previous quote in it, that is true of fiv but i thought you meant the cat you rehomed 9 years ago had felv ?  I have just double checked glsw website and the current info is as follows

There is a long incubation period (months to years) from infection with FeLV to development of disease. However 85 out of 100 FeLV infected cats die within 3.5 years of becoming infected.

PS i think glsw site has been updated, i'm sure there are new lots of info on there that i hadnt seen before.

[ccmacey]

I dont think keeping cats as house cats is cruel, you are only doing it for their own safety after all 

[Ela]

Don't know if it makes a difference but on their website it says they are entirely self-funded and receive no funds from Central RSPCA. 

I think most of not all the RSPCA Branches are self funding.

Possibly like the CP Just the Shelters that are HQ funded. Your Branch possibly agrees with the comment 'Rules are for the obedience of fools and guidance of wise men'.

[Ela]

  As Ela says a few actually seem to be very fortunate but probably most commonly they become ill much earlier than that.

 TAKEN FROM AN INTERNET SITE:- Dr Sue Duthie at the University Glasgow, has stated that  recent research has shown that cats infected with FIV can live just as long as uninfected cats .A long-term FIV Monitoring Project was also carried out at Glasgow Veterinary School over a number of years and the results indicated that a higher percentage of FIV negative cats died than FIV positive cats! A fourteen year study by Maureen Hutchison B.Sc, BVMS, MRCVS  found that FIV-positive cats are more likely to die by being killed in road accidents or to be alive and well into their twilight years than they are to die from any FIV related condition. Also, a recent survey by Dr Diane D. Addie (Lecturer in Veterinary Virology, University of Glasgow) where 26 cats were monitored for ten years, found that FIV infection did not affect the cats’ life expectancy.

[smudgepickles]

If it was possible all my cats would be indoor cats............... Milo, Bella and Daisy the Gitten all just go in the garden.......they have toys out there should they have a senior moment. Elle Daisys twin has never attempted to go out the cat flap. They all have to show their faces before i can sleep and Daisy Elle Milo and Bella Only have the run of the top of the house all night

I still think of that stupid  woman who owned Jasper on that awful busy road 


xx
 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

It's swings and roundabouts really, isn't it.  There are advantages and disadvantages to both indoor and indoor/outdoor.  Even among those who go outdoors, there are huge differences in environment.   Cats can adapt to different environments - including indoor - so long as their basic needs are met (ie exercise and mental stimulation as well as the obvious food, water, warmth etc).  It does annoy me, however, that so many rescues just don't want to know if you say you want to keep them indoors.  I'm not saying they should be prepared to give just any cat to an indoor home - some, such as those used to having outdoor access, might not be suitable - but with so many homeless cats you'd think they'd be a bit more open minded and not turn down good homes. 

rosiesmum - I'm sure you'll find a cat when the time comes.  it might take a bit of effort contacting lots of rescues like Helen had to, but I'm sure someone will realise that you have a loving home to offer some lucky furbabe.

[Rosella moggy]

Mark, PLEASE pass on my heartfelt apologies to Kylie for blaming Kylie for Willow's misdemeanours. I really am very sorry Kylie and obviously only meant it as a joke when I suggested that there could ever be a situation when your daddy would give you up. You are just such a very beautiful girl  

[hannah (weeny)]

i dont tend to get into these debates, not that this is one at the moment!  but i just wanted to say there are many indoor puss cats on this site and they all seem wonderfully loved and extrememly happy.  as some one else mentioned you seem an ideal cat slave and i really hope you can find some kittens or cats soon, it obvious you'll make them very happy    long as you make us happy with the photos!!! 

as far as the indoor thing goes... when i got jasper i was half (ok - more than half) hoping he would want to be an indoor cat and i had the view of being able to maybe take him to uni with me.  this was so utterly not the case!!!  from the week i got him he was always looking out the window and i do believe he would have tunneled his little way out had he not had access to outside.  i know his dad was a bit of a lad about town and get the idea he was outside a lot and i really feel this was passed on to my baby boy.  jasper would be very unhappy being an indoor cat, but i see that many puss cats are very happy with being indoor all the time.  their personalities do make some difference i think 

and one more thing - - - i get to see my boy again on sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay!!!!!!!!!!  will have to move him off my bed - he wont be impressed!!! 

[Mark]

Mark if the peeing ever gets too much to handle, I'll have Kylie. She is simply a very beautiful cat.

Kylie is a good girl and she doesn't pee - although she is probably the reason Willow pees. I couldn't part with my girl. I had her before I met my OH and it was just us 2. When there are no other people or cats around, she lies on the bed and puts her front leg over my arm and her head sideways on my arm and purrs like a machine gun. I love her - Thanks but I would sooner part with my arms than my Kylie 

[Bazsmum]

Two of my cat's think im cruel so ive promised them a catproof garden soon.......its not cruel as long as you provide the stimulation for them

[Tiggy's Mum]

I was a little surprised, Helen, that RSPCA said they would home to indoor only environment. Does anyone remember the (CatChat? not sure) thread about RSPCA preferring to pts cats they could not home as indoor/outdoor?  I got in touch with them on Internet and, reading thru their garbled reply, they seemed to confirm that to be their policy. Sorry I don't mean to drub RSPCA again (I still send £10 p/mth to local RSPCA branch).   Just was happily surprised that one of their branches isn't taking that line.

I was too, I thought the responses from CP and RSPCA would be the other way round.This was the response from the RSPCA "We have no problems in rehoming cats/kittens as indoor pets, in fact we sometimes have kittens/cats that need such a home (e.g. are deaf, disabled in some way). Please feel free to call us when you are ready to adopt and we'll see if we can help."  Don't know if it makes a difference but on their website it says they are entirely self-funded and receive no funds from Central RSPCA. 

[Rosella moggy]

Mark if the peeing ever gets too much to handle, I'll have Kylie. She is simply a very beautiful cat.

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

I am surprised as well really with some rescues attitudes to indoor only homes.  In this day and age, there are so many dangers out there, it's not just the roads, you can have nasty neighbours and now, you have the cat/dog fur trade   

I had 3 of mine poisoned a couple of years ago, they all died within a day of each other.......not something I would want to go through again      I decided for the sake of my cats, they would all be indoor and initially I had a couple of them wanting to go out, but with a bit of distraction, they'd soon settle down again.  This year though, I have decided to let a couple of them out for about an hour in the early hours of the morning, they go out and come back in again.  I'm safe doing this as I know who killed my cats, and doing it this way, he doesn't know I have any.  I do think the big outdoors is great for a cat, sadly these days we don't live in a safe environment so we have to change things accordingly and weigh up the options.

[Mark]

When I got Kylie from North London CP 5 years ago. The had some cats that were indoor only and others that they would only rehome if you had a garden. Luckily I had a garden so I got my gorgeous kylie

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[rosiesmum]

Gosh, I'm worried that so many rescues are refusing a good home due to you wanting indoor cats.

I am in the process of thinking of getting a rescue cat as a companion for my 13month old cat. Rosie started out as an outdoor cat, but due to a recent accident, I have decided to keep her as an indoor cat.

I am not in a position to rehome straight away, but was going to contact my local rescues and see what their policy was.

I had alot of great advice from the members on here and if all else fails, will approach pedigree rescue centres.

[Rosella moggy]

I was a little surprised, Helen, that RSPCA said they would home to indoor only environment. Does anyone remember the (CatChat? not sure) thread about RSPCA preferring to pts cats they could not home as indoor/outdoor?  I got in touch with them on Internet and, reading thru their garbled reply, they seemed to confirm that to be their policy. Sorry I don't mean to drub RSPCA again (I still send £10 p/mth to local RSPCA branch).   Just was happily surprised that one of their branches isn't taking that line.

[clarenmax]

Yeah, I guess so, although I'll be honest and say I don't know too much about FELV.  I guess it also depends on how long they've had the illness before its been found ... with Max he was very young and that probably worked in his favour, particularly as he's been kept away from any nasties in all the time he's been with me, so I'm sure every case is very different

[CurlyCatz]

yes true we think my soots quite possibly had fiv for many many years, and felv for around 3 years.

For me personally i would have higher hopes of life expectancy with fiv altho every case is entirely idividual.

[clarenmax]

Forgot to say, my little man was diagnosed with FIV when he was picked up as a stray when he was about 2 .......I've now been owned by him for nearly 7 years and he has had very few health issues, probably no more than any other cat would have to be honest.

I know you've had a negative experience in the past, and nobody will tell you that you should home an FIV/FELV cat if it brings back sad memories, but just to say that not all 'ill' cats go downhill quickly  

[CurlyCatz]

thats a difficult one isnt it.  I know myself rightly or wrongly couldnt actually choose to take on a knowingly +ve cat for the very reason of heartbreak sooner than one would expect or hope for.  As Ela says a few actually seem to be very fortunate but probably most commonly they become ill much earlier than that.
But then if no one takes them who will and what is to become of them, somebody has to, it is a motive question and each individual probably knows how they deal with loss as some do cope better then others altho all are very saddened and upset.

claire i'm with you and have been shocked and eyes opened as i really did not know this was the case with seemingly so many rescues.

[clarenmax]

I think it very wrong of the person you spoke to saying its cruel to keep a cat indoors    And the number of recues overall who won't home to indoor only, well thats a litte mind boggling!

As others have said, I'm sure there are some cats/certain breeds where they may not be happy in an indoor only environment, but with so many furbabes needing homes, I would have thought that an indoor home with loving and attentive slaves would certainly be followed up seriously  

My boy is not indoor through choice as he is FIV+, but to be honest, even if he didn't have the virus, I think I would keep him in.  There are so much cruelty and madness in our world today, I would worry every minute they were not at home.  A cat-proofed garden would of course be the best scenario as they would have the best of both worlds, but for those of us either renting or without a garden, I think indoors is just fine.

[Ela]

  I toyed with the idea of taking in more FELV infected cats when we discovered Marley and JJ's illness last year but it broke my heart so much loosing them both that i don't really want to go down that route again.

I appreciate what you say, but you know young cats and kittens we homed in the last years or so are now sadly dead, yet a 12 year old cat I homed 9 yrs ago is still alive and well.

[CurlyCatz]

both my big boys were adults when i got them and had been outdoors, fraser probably had a home we reckon but was used to the outdoors.  He adapted and never looked back with being indoor only. sebastian was around 18 mnths old and never had a proper home (stray but fed by loads of houses) now again he is ok within reason with indoors but they have an outdoor run which in this house they can come and go as they please as the run is on the side of house, If sebastian doesnt get into his run (which he hasnt for about 5 mnths till this week) he does get abit moodier and try harder to escape and he is much happier with getting outdoors..normally fairly content with the restrictions of run.
My cody is a pedigree and he and generations before him have never been outdoors so hes totally happy altho he has gone out to the run a few times but doesnt stay out nearly as long as the others.

for me personally i think a catsecure type thing in your garden or a run (i prefer the latter as i feel safer with it) is the idea to give them a taster of both.

[Ann Clarke (Tabby cat)]

I have a 7 year old and a 7 month old who are both indoor cats as I'm near a busy bypass and both are very happy with loads of toys and lots of play and fuss from me. It's certainly not cruel to keep them indoors and we at Gateshead CP wouldn't turn anyone down who wanted indoors cats or kittens. Obviously with the cats it's a little more difficult as some just don't take to it but we always try and find a suitable one for people who are offering good homes even if it means a bit more of a wait until we get the right one for them. With kittens we certainly wouldn't have a problem with someone keeping them indoors from the start and as others have said it means we don't then worry so much about them. Interestingly when Hobbes was at the vets recently to be neutered they were very pleased when I said neither of my cats went out so they obviously don't think it's cruel either. You sound like just the sort of person we love to have get in touch, it's a shame you're not nearer to us, I hope you find your new additions soon and don't let this person put you off 

[Liz]

Currently out of the 36 clan cats 15 are indoor only and the other 21 are indoor/outdoor

So I can see both sides some of the mob who are housecats are from a feral colony we bought with us or had been trapping and the oldest joined us 2 years ago she is now 17 and has adapted like a duck to water she has food on tap and an expanding waistline but is hale and hearty according to the vet and doesn't look to venture out, we have some by our choice as they have social issues with people -  theya re feral from nice when chooses to touch me and I will shred you

The others include some ferals who have overtime become neaaarly totally domesticated and come in every night.

So through the day the inside cats have 2 bedrooms, an upstairs and downstairs study, their own catroom and a family room and a flight of stairs to play on and more toys than most and all the gear.  The others have the 4 public rooms, kitchen, utility room, windows for access and of course the gardens and woods

At night all mingle and are one big happy family and sometimes on a whole grounded day the insdie just go back to bed and the others stick on their side of the house even with the doors open!

[Millys Mum]

i'm absolutely shocked with the amount of rescues you guys are saying refuses to rehome indoors..for pity sake SAFE and loving homes for rescues bursting at the seams and they are saying no..........

These people then end up turning to free ad breeders 

We've been saving money for the vet bills

I really reccommend pet insurance, i have had best part of a £1000 from M&S this year, that pays everyones annual premium 
For approx £5 a month you get great security

Theres lots of older cats who need indoor homes so thats great you'll consider those.
FIV (no where near as terrible as felv), deaf, blind, white, nervous cats all would love a mum & dad like you ( i love the sound of cats bedroom!  )

[Clairio]

Thanks for your replies, you've put my mind at rest now.  I agree that there are benefits to letting our furry little friends outside but for her to label it "cruel" to keep them indoors was just wrong.

I'm not going to give up, i might not be able to offer a garden or a safe street to play out on but i have a large three bedroom house that they can have free range of with designated cat bedroom for their own personal space, full of toys and quiet places to snooze and a brand new huge cat tree just waiting to be climbed on.  We've been saving money for the vet bills and have a cupboard full of food, we're really prepared!  I'm sure there will be somebody somewhere who will be more than happy to let us home two needy babies.

I live in Bradford, we're looking for kittens primarily (any age) just so we can try raise them as house cats from being young but if anyone knows of any older house cats that need a home we'd be more than happy to help.   I toyed with the idea of taking in more FELV infected cats when we discovered Marley and JJ's illness last year but it broke my heart so much loosing them both that i don't really want to go down that route again.  If i were a stronger person i would definitely consider that option but it's still to painful to think about.

[CurlyCatz]

i'm absolutely shocked with the amount of rescues you guys are saying refuses to rehome indoors..for pity sake SAFE and loving homes for rescues bursting at the seams and they are saying no..........

[Millys Mum]

Definatley not cruel Clairio  

Pedigree rescues are always looking for indoor homes for their cats. All rescues at some point get cats that need indoor homes so dont give up!
I can see both sides with kittens, on one hand they are safe but the on other hand you dont know the character they will develop. Iv met a few young cats who just wouldnt settle as indoor cats, they have been rehomed and become so much happier.

Sorry you lost your babes to felv  

[Tiggy's Mum]

I had a similar problem, I emailed all rescues within a 50 mile radius asking whether they would consider homing two indoor kittens.  I explained my home set up, why they would need to be indoor, how long I worked, the fact that I have cat proofed windows, how I appreciated indoor cats required more attention and stimulation, how I'd be prepared to home kittens with speiail needs, how if I was out of their catchment area I could provide vet references and/or donate to another charity to do a homecheck on their behalf etc etc.  The majority of replies were a blanket No and some implied it was wrong to even consider homing kittens indoors.  CP said No, RSPCA said Yes.  I think about 4 out of 20 said Yes...

I eventually found my gorgeous baby boys and I know they will have the best life possible with me with lots of love, stimulation and attention.  If I move in the future to somewhere with a garden suitable for cat proofing then I will do that as I think that's the ideal solution in any case, it's a cruel world out there and I don't want to expose my boys to it.

[Ela]

Our branch of Cats Protection are happy to home most cats and kittens as indoors, only very occasionally do we get in a domestic cat that we know would not be happy as an indoor cat. My own reasons for keeping cats in can be seen on the Indoor/outdoor debate on our site www.chesterfieldcats.co.uk

[JackSpratt]

This is one of those neverending debates! Everyone has their own view about what's best for their cats. I personally feel that my cats wouldn't be happywithout access to the great outdoors, but that's just my opinion about the cats we live with.

I don't think you're cruel, I think you're doing what you feel is right and as long as your cats have plenty to do I wouldn't say they were suffering. (Far from it!)

[Angiew]

 

[Dawn (DiddyDawn)]

As Dawn says, whereabouts are you - I'm sure one of us rescues will be able to point you in the right direction - or make a mad dash to be first

Oi you, I asked first    What age kittens are you looking for? 

[Angiew]

I think it depends on the cat. If a kitten is kept indoors from the start then they seem to be happy. My two couldn't wait to get outside and I lost one of them to the road at just over a year.
Some areas are not suitable for allowing cats out because of roads/people etc.
I think if I was intentionally going for indoor I would go down the route you went last time and get FIV/FELV or a cat that needs to be kept in. Having said that, I can also appreciate that having done that you may now feel that you want cats with no existing conditions.

I would happily rehome kittens to indoor homes.
As Dawn says, whereabouts are you - I'm sure one of us rescues will be able to point you in the right direction - or make a mad dash to be first

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

Well I don't personally think it's cruel as mine are totally indoor cats.  Yes, they are missing out on the joys of the outdoors but I think they have enough toys, games and mental stimulation to give them a good quality of life.  But some people do think it's cruel and I think you'll find it varies from rescue to rescue as to whether they'll let you have a kitten to keep indoors.  Some will be happy to let you have a cat/kitten that needs to be kept indoors due to illness or disability (FIV, FeLV, blind etc) but not a healthy kitten while others will be happy to let you have any kitten.  I guess you can just keep trying and see if other rescues respond in the same way.  I will admit that when I got my first 2 cats - 10 years ago now - I deliberately went to a rescue that I knew didn't do homechecks because I feared that response.  Times have changed a bit now though and more people are accepting of indoor cats.