Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => For Disabled Cats => Topic started by: CoolCyberCats on December 07, 2009, 22:10:50 PM
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Our cat Leo is an epileptic. I adopted him know he was a special needs cat so I could help him have a good life. At the time we adopted Leo he suffered from epilepsy, poor eyesight, atrophied rear legs, constant jumping when he heard a noise or something moved, brittle coat, an abusive past and more. When we first saw him in the Save-A-Pet newsletter we knew we had to help him. We managed to locate his original owner's vet records which really upset us once we read the details of his past. He suffered from many things including removal of all four sets of claws (even though Save-A-Pet makes you sign a contract when adopting stating that you will NEVER declaw the cat) and electrocution! We helped him a lot and he became a happier and healthier cat over time. He is now almost 12 and we have had him close to 10 years. He still has to take meds for his epilepsy and he suffers multiple grand-mal seizures every 2 to 4 months, and they are really horrible to see. His worst was 4 in a row, each lasting about 1 minute.
As he grew older one of his kidneys has shrunk and is likely nonfunctional now. He has also developed other issues over the years, including something LIKE mega-colon. His large intestine has lost most if not all motility and Leo has been on several drugs to help him with this, though the last 2 years they have not worked well andhe has had to go to the vet for an enema at least once a week. TO help with the stool softening I have also been giving him SubQ fluids every night (it started as once a week, then 2 times a week and for a year it has been nightly now).
Here are some images of Leo taken over the years:
(http://www.coolcybercats.com/images/bios/Leo/CowCatLeo.jpg)
(http://www.coolcybercats.com/images/bios/Leo/Going4AWalk.jpg)
(http://www.coolcybercats.com/images/photos/200606/20060604-LeoOrionNovaSleep2.jpg)
In the last he is sleeping with Orion and Nova.
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What are the effects of a grande mal siezure while it is happening, as opposed to any other seisure?
Do you know when they are going to happen, any warning signs?
What do you do while he is having a seizure and what are its after effects on Leo?
He is gorgeous by the way ;D
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Hello Gill,
All most excellent questions.
I will start with a guide I have on eBay on feline seizures then I’ll address the questions directly.
---start of guide---
Seizures are a very serious problem, and if your cat has suffered a seizure, whether a full blown grand-mal or a petite-mal, you should take him a veterinarian right away. A proper diagnosis can cost a lot and take some time, but this may be needed in order to figure out the cause, eliminate causes and/or find out the best treatment be it surgery or medication.
There is a difference between epilepsy and seizures. Seizures can range from unusual mood swings, sudden loss of balance, uncontrollable thrashing and loss of body control. Seizures are usually symptoms of a disease or physical problem which include infections, tumors, toxic chemicals, and brain damage. Generally cat seizures are not caused by epilepsy. Epilepsy is more a word for seizures for which no other cause has been found.
You will usually see epilepsy divided into one of two types: idiopathic or primary epilepsy; and symptomatic or secondary epilepsy. Idiopathic is used for seizures that seem to have no other cause. Symptomatic refers to seizures caused by an underlying condition.
Seizures should not go untreated. There are risks of choking during the seizure and the seizures may be caused by an underlying condition that could be life threatening if left untreated. Anti-convulsant medications such as Phenobarbital may be able to control the seizures, depending on the underlying cause and diagnosis. Long term use of the medications and the effects on your cat’s body, behavior and organs is the subject of another guide I plan to write when time permits.
What if my cat has a seizure?
If your cat having what you believe is a seizure, make sure you watch closely and observe every detail you can so you may describe in detail the event to your vet. As a rule, your vet will never be present during your cat’s seizure, so it is very important that you are able to describe exactly what happened prior to, during and after the seizure. Try to observe breathing patterns, paddling motion, rigidness of limbs, eye dilation and/or motion, salivation, body twisting, muscle twitching; and duration. There is nothing you can do to help your cat while the seizure is happening. Do not attempt to hold or control your cat. This is very dangerous for both your cat and you. Remember that your cat has NO control or ability to react while in the seizure and could scratch you and bite you as the muscles seizure. After the seizure is over your presence and attention will probably comfort your cat as it regains consciousness. At this point you should pet and speak to him. Our cat Leo has had epilepsy since he was a kitten and mistreated by his original owners. When his seizure ends I talk gently to him and brush him for a few minutes, then I get clean damp cloths and clean him up and put him in a bed where I will stay with him through the night (he has his seizures at night as a rule). I also make note of the duration and behavior during the seizure as well as his behavior following for up to 2 hours (he tends to suffer many petite –mal seizures for several hours following the grand-mal(s)). If his episode was strange (abnormal) enough or especially violent, prolonged or in groups, I will call the vet emergency number and take him in right away (for me this always seems to happen at 2-4am). If his episode was not abnormal for him I will call his vet in the morning with a full report and the vet decides if Leo should be seen.
If your cat is having a single prolonged seizure, continuous seizures without recovery between them, or two or more isolated seizures within 24 hours, contact your vet IMMEDIATELY. If it is after hours contact the vet emergency number or a local emergency vet hospital. Aggressive treatment is recommended in these cases and usually intravenous medication is called for. I cannot stress the importance of contacting your vet in this situation as your cat can actually “fry” his brain and die.
The main points
- Take your cat to a veterinarian: The most important step is to find a good veterinarian to take care of your cat. If your cat has had one seizure, you should call and make an appointment. If your cat has had more than one seizure in 24 hours, find a vet IMMEDIATELY.
- Learn about seizures and epilepsy: Ask your vet for information that he may be able to copy for you, or where to locate good and proper information. The internet is chalk full of false or inaccurate information, please do not take any medical advice to heart that you find with a search, this includes MINE.
- Make sure your cat gets quality care: Ask your vet questions to see what tests are being done, what problem they suspect and what future course of action they recommend. Feline epilepsy is rare, so many vets are unfamiliar with it. Blood work should always be done, and Phenobarbital is generally prescribed. If you believe your vet is unaware of how to diagnose or treat the seizures then find another vet who can. Seizures or the cause can be fatal if not treated properly.
- Follow up on the care: Your cat may be put on permanent medications. Our cat Leo has been on Phenobarbital one a day for 7 years and his seizures were kept to a minimum. Our goal was 1 or less seizures every 6 months. But in the couple of years his seizures have become more frequent and violent. Follow up visits with our vet has started him the regular dose he always had plus a half dose every other evening. We also take Leo with us on every trip we go on. If you need to give your cat regular medications, work it into your schedule and consider how to handle extended absences. If you decide to take your cat on your trips, make sure to locate pet friendly hotels and airlines (a subject for another guide I guess).
Final Words
Please remember that I am NOT a veterinarian or trained cat specialist. My advice and guidance is from person experience, self learning and talks with several vets. Before you take my advice (or anyones) to heart make sure you consult with your cat's vet and make sure that they agree with the advice. After all, you and your vet know your cat far better than I or anyone else does.
---end of guide---
Now on to your questions:
What are the effects of a grande mal seizure while it is happening, as opposed to any other seizure?
Leo has Grand-Mal seizures and Petite-Mal seizures. Lucky for me he always has had them at night (except 2 so far). Since he sleeps on the bed in a heated cup next to my head the shaking always wakes me. He thrashes and jerks violently. His muscles contract while he thrashes and his eyes roll up into his head. It is very painful to watch and there is little you can do, which I’ll address on your 3rd question. He will also urinate while thrashing like this. Sometimes, depending on how he is facing it will spray up and wet the bed and me. :( This will go on for 30 seconds to 2 minutes depending on the severity of the seizure. The violence of it can also range from moderate to horrible. After he lets out a gurgle mixed with a yowl and then slump over to one side totally wasted.
After anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes after the initial grand-mal he will be laying and his head will sway to one side and his ears go down while his head does this motion. He will do this one time every few minutes. This is his petite-mal seizures. They can also rear in some animals by staring in a trance. For Leo, they always lead into more grand-mals. The petite-mals happen more frequently and then he will sputter with them. The best way I can describe the “sputter” is imagine pulling out a gas (petrel there) lawn mower and pulling the rope and the motor starts to catch, sputter, pop then stop. It is like his “grand-mal motor rope” was pulled and the engine sputtered out. Once this happens it is a guarantee that within 1 to 3 more “sputter” petite-mals he will roar into a full blown grand-mal again. He can have 2 to 4 grand-mals in a night and as a rule I call the vet on the 3rd, get them out of bed and pay top have them meet me at the clinic (35 minutes drive for us). I also have learned to dilute some diazepam (valium) into a small amount of water and squirt it into his mouth with a syringe right after the initial grand-mal is over. This greatly slows the oncoming seizures and can reduce the number of them.
10 to 20 minutes after his last grand-mal he begins to drool for a few hours.
Do you know when they are going to happen, any warning signs?
Strangely I get a feeling within a few days of his seizures. I am right about 85 to 90 percent of the time. I cannot place a thumb on what exactly tells me, but some things I have noted include:
1. Leo gets a bit more active the night or a seizure.
2. Leo will ALWAYS have a seizure if I leave for more than a night. ALWAYS. So if Donna and I are going anywhere over night, Leo comes. Thus he has become a well traveled cat. He goes with us 1 to 2 times a year to the east coast when we visit my family. And it is no quick hop. This is a regional airport so we have to hop flights to get out. 3 weeks ago our flight out went: 6:15am left for airport. 8:15am flight takes off. 12pm we land in Mn/Sp airport and switch flights. We leave there at 1:15pm and arrive in NJ at 5pm. We arrive at my mothers home by 7pm. (keep in mind NJ is +2 hours to my timezone and the times I mentioned are local time). Leo will travel in the planes with us and we have a carrier that connects to a baby stroller like thing so we push him in the airports.
What do you do while he is having a seizure and what are its after effects on Leo?
There is nothing you can do. It is dangerous not only to him but you to try and handle him while in a full blown seizure. He can bite down on you and do serious damage to you or you can cause him to bite down on his tongue or lip by moving him. No, you have to sit there and watch, though it is very painful. I do place my hand on top of him, hardly touching him, in hopes he feels me there, and I tell him how much I love him and will watch over him. (hmm, tearing up a bit now).
Once he has one, I stay up the rest of the night with him, brushing him, petting him, wiping drool off him and talking to him. He is pretty spent though and will often just lay there 10 hours and not get up he is so tired.
From what I know of grand-mal’s in humans and what the vet’s tell me, he does not remember them. He just feels funny and very very tired and aches like he has the words hardest work out. In fact one reason I rush him in on 3+ seizures (used to be 2+ till 2 became common place, not 3 is) is that the body is exerting the muscles so much that it can raise the body core temperature. If the seizures are long enough or continuous the fever can kill.
Leo has to take phenobarbotal every day to help not have them. When I got him my vet in Chicago wanted to see how low we could take him and when we lowered it a lot he began to have them daily, so we raised the dose again. It is a hard game of quality of life vs seizures. The meds make him loopy and forever tired. So I have to always debate one vs the other, and I hate that.
There is a lot more medically than I described, but I hope you get the idea from this.
Sincereley,
David
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Thanks very much david cos I have a cat who has periods of seizures and they sound pretty much Grande Mal but he is not on meds unless he has some and asap after having one I will get him to the vets and he is given an ab called marbocyl by injection and I then give him 6 further injections, one a day and the seizure stop.
Its a very powerful ab and it takes 3-4 days for the seizures to stop, He was traeted as having a brain infection but due to his age as a 16yr old birman with only one working kidney, he is too old to travel a long way for an MRI scan and the anesthetic couls kill him anyway. So this treatment was tried back in Feb the start, and he was then ill again in Julu and again in Sep.
There is a thread on hear detailing everything that happens, sort as a record for me.
Like you I will not now go away over night, he gets very stressed when I go out for long times and has become a devoted little sheep who follows me everywhere and wants to be cuddling for long times during the day and evening , and has now taken to sleeping on my bed too.
We have just got a new member in last week or so whose cat is dagnosed with epilepsy and has had all the tests and MRI and there is nothing that can be found that causes it, which fits with what you have said. He is on phenabarbatone but has only just started treatment so is have severe side effects but is on an extremely high doseage.
The last vet that saw Franta for about 2 mins! decided he thought he was epileptic but I dont think so, so your explanation has helped me a lot and its the first time that I have been able to talk to one, let alone two people with epileptic cats.
The seizures are very horrible to watch and so far I have had nothing that gives me any indication of them about to start but last time we were at the vets an hour or so from the first seizure and he recovered much quicker than in previous times.
He hates travelling in the car and we have about 45mins at the least to travel to the vets and the only time he has had two seizure in quick succession was back in Feb travelling home from the vet and he was in the car and it was terrible and thought I was losing him. Usualy his seizures are anything from 6 hours upwards apart and the further apart they get the closer he is to them stopping.
I have a rectal tube of diazapam for him in case of needing to travel with him having a seizure. Not sure how I would administer it to be honest although he rests for a long time and loses or part loses his sight for a time after.
I think he doesnt remeber anything like you say but just knows he cant see, is starving hungry and needs to rest.
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Hi David
I find your topic very interesting. My cat has just been diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy
suddenly one night Ollie started taking a seizure. i had been of work ill for a month and was due to go back to work the next day, i had gone to bed and 5 mins later i heard my husband screaming and load bangs , i ran down stairs and Ollie was fitting, totally bashing himself off everything and wet himself we had the paddling motion, eye twitching, pupils dilated, dribbling at the mouth and breathing frantically. about ten mins before hit happened he was making youlling noises. We called the emergency vet straight away. about 11.30 at night. Cleaned ollie and took him to the vet. the vet checked his blood levels gloucose and all the general tests they can do in our surery. no temperature but his hear rate was very variable, the vet gave us a tube of retal diazepan and asked us to keep an eye on him.
we got ollie home and decided to stay down stairs with him, 1 hour later he took another seizure. gave him some diazepan then he settled after we cleaned him up by morning he had had 3 very violent seizures. we took him to vet in morning and she started him on phenobarbital 1 tablet twice a day, i took the day off work to look after ollie as was scared to leave him and he took another 2. he had 5 seizures in less than 7 hours. i called vet again and she told me to bring him to see her and she would look after him over night. as soon as she saw him she said he was to ill for her to look after so admitted him to the small animal hospital in glasgow
he was admitted to the high dependency unit where they monitored him overnight and anf the following morning they did various tests and an mri scan, they checked him for all other diseases also all came back negative. The neurologis and vet said the amount he took in such a short space of time was quite worrying and we feared the worst.
Ollie is now on 1.5 tablets morning and night. the side effects the first couple of weeks were awful. Ollie had no quality of life and we were worried this was how he would be he kept falling over and was completely spaced out 24 hours a day and took a bad skin reaction to the medication. the side effects are starting to wear off now of the tablets and we are starting to get our boy back. he is still in early stages of this so we have a lot to learn and most probably a lot more to deal with
coming on this forum has been great especially speaking to Gill as her cat has similar problems and has helped reassure me and having support of someone who understands what the cat and i am going through. it is very rare in cats seizures far more commom in dogs
i permanently feel on edge just now as the slightest chage in the way Ollie acts i start to panick. the vet is doing blood tests every cople weeks to check effext of medication on ollies liver and they hope in time can reduce the tablets but for now we need to jeep him stable. . it has been a very stressful time and i am sure you and also Gill probably feel the same
Any info i can get is greatly appreciated as this condition is not that common
zoe
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Hello Zoe,
I am sorry about Ollie. Epilepsy is not a fun thing to have to deal with and as you said there are not a lot of support groups for cat owners namely because (as you also stated) it is so rare in cats.
Are the phenobarbital pills 16.5mg each? The pills we get are, and Leo gets a half pill each morning and a quarter pill at night. The Pheno can place Olli in a stupor and make it hard for him to get around. I know that over time their bodies get used to it and the effects are not as pronounced, but if the pills are 16.5mg each that means he is getting close to 50mg a day. I personally would consider that a lot and have grave concerns over that much, but then again I do not know the mg dosage of your pills and I am no veterinarian. It will be very important for Ollie to get his blood work often I would think. Pheno can do great damage to the liver. Leo has been on it for 10 years now and we have his phenol levels and liver tests done every few months or when he has multiple seizures. Also it takes a while for the body to build up to the level of pheno in the blood, a reason why getting phenol levels taken is important. The diazepam helps short term and quickly, which is why you got that.
Another avenue you could talk over with your veterinarian would be getting Ollie an MRI to make sure there is nothing in his head causing this, like scar tissue or a tumor. WE have opted to not do that with Leo. Mainly he has been an epileptic so long that if there was a tumor it would have long killed him, and at his age I would be hard pressed to allow brain surgery.
I would say it is also important for you to now monitor the frequency of Ollie’s seizures, note the severity and length of them and any behavior changes before he has one. Also watch him closely for petite-mals, they can occur independent of the grand-mals or, like in Leo’s case occur after the grand-mals or leading into them.
I am not sure if there are other options in the UK, other than Phenobarbital, but I know there are some other drugs here that are generally accepted as long term treatments for dogs. Our vet has talked about them before, but we have opted to stay with the phenol for now since Leo’s liver is doing fine and it seems to help him.
Last thought, if Ollie continues to be knocked into a stupor by the level of pheno he is taking AND his seizures have not been happening or no where near as often, consider asking your vet about a SLOW reduction on this daily dosage. Quality of life is always a big part of the equation. But for now the main goal is to stop further prolonged episodes.
Sincerely,
David
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I am being a bit norty here butting in, but have talked with Zoe a lot and know that Oliie has had MRI and spinal tap and all tests have showed no problem.
I am like you though cos Franta is too old for MRI and weird in that the abs have seemingly helped him but like Zoe live on my nerves all the time.
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Ahh. Good that she had the MRI though. So that was what made the dignosis idiopathic. :)
My only other question is what the does of those pills are. If Leo were taking 3 of our pills a day he would not have a life at all. :(
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The dose is 45mg a day, half in morning and half at night and he didnt have a life last week but Zoe has just posted that he is improving all the time and he is now a different cat to last week. Still away to go though
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Hi David what Gill says is corect as i have been keeping her updated on tests etc and updates. I am keeping a aily diary on his behaviour and any changes and letting vet know everything. the vet is contacting the neurologist at the hospital if she has concerns as this as u say is not common and the vet does not have all the knowledge required but any concerns they have they check with hospital
For the first few weeks Ollies quality of life was pretty non existant. but certainly over the last few days he has started to become himself. the vet is doing blood tests every two weeks at the moment to keep eye on liver etc and when they know he has stabalised a bit they will try and reduce the medication but it will be trial and error an we dont know how he will be on reduces dose
every change i see in him i am nervous for him. living on my nerves as its so hard exactly how Gill has been feeling. Its been a great comfort for me being able to speak to gill as not many people understand
zoe
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Update on Ollie, the vet called me tonight to say blood tests are expected level for the phenobarbitol and if he is still stable in 4 weeks she will reduce his medication to 30mg per day and not 45mg as it is just now and see how he goes. Think the tablets are making him itchy though. He had steriods and his skin cleared up and think they are out his system now and the itchiness is starting again.
David have u ever noticed itching in your Leo. It just started tonight again and he all cut again so will call the vet tomoro
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Hi Zoe,
No, I never noticed Leo itching a lot. But if he did I do not think he could do much about it since his original (abusive) owners decided to 4 paw declaw him. :( He does love me to brush him with a slicker though, especially under his chin. He will raise his head/chin up high if I say "chin chin chin" and he then expects a bood brushing there.
If Ollie is scratching himself bloody, you may want to consider a nonmedical temporary solution. I hate to say it because so many people seem to be against it here, but Soft Claws will cap the sharp claws so he cannot do any damage to himself. I know others use them for this reason. I use them from time to time when Nova and Orion go at it all the time, it protects them from hurting each other with claws. And it is an inexpensive solution that can last 3 to 6 months. :) If interested you can find them on eBay and I think there is a UK site called SoftClaws.co.uk too, but not sure.
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better than soft claws or what ever, is to stop the itching and if a steroid worked before that would be best.
I am someone who has a skin problem that itches and I think its cruel to try and stop someone or a cat not being able to scratch cos they will find away it doing it anyway. Its torture when you itch that bad.
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Yes, but given a choice of scratching and ripping off skin or soft claws? If the vet is uncaring about more steroids then that is a better option say, but if they rather not for some unknown reason? I still believe Soft Claws can be an option. Though the idea of the Pheno causing that kind of itching is destressing in itself. :(
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better than soft claws or what ever, is to stop the itching and if a steroid worked before that would be best.
I am someone who has a skin problem that itches and I think its cruel to try and stop someone or a cat not being able to scratch cos they will find away it doing it anyway. Its torture when you itch that bad.
Totally agree Gill I suffer eczema and the itching is torture for me without a steroid spray
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Just woke up this morning and his we skin is a lot worse. His we head is all covered in blood where he has scratched all the original places that came up in lumps. It is distressing him and thats the last thing i want so will pop down to the vets at 9am when its open to see what they say. the vet has been amazing and she calls me regularly to check up on how Ollie is doing. I think as well as epilepsy is rare they are interested in progress also she really caring and i guess they can probably learn a lot from it.
When Ollie was at hospital they asked if i signed a form to use his blood tests and other tests for research so i think that was a good thing also. Hopefully in future may help other kitties
Re the scratching the hospital were happy with the steroids so once i speak to the vet will see if she suggests that again, dont want him suffering any more
regarding the soft claws i used to work with www.petplanet.co.uk and they thought about selling them and i was personally against them as they dont seem natural and they are not really liked in the UK which caused a lot of anger in customers so they decided not to sell them
i do feel steroids prob best option but i am not a vet so will see what vet says today and update later. Everything the vet does she checks out with his neurologist as they are far maore specialised than the vet
Zoe
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Poor Ollie :( it must be awful for him, thankfully your vets sound to be great, hope they can sort this out for him :hug:
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Do hope that vet will help and does she think he is allergic to the meds? That be terrible if he is :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Hi went to see the vet today re Ollie and the lumps and bumps appearing again. The vet who deals with Ollie was not in but I have been given more steriods for him as that worked. I left a message for the vet as she wants updated with everything that happens, there is a ggod possibility it is an allergic reaction to the medication but the steriods certainly helped
Hopefully though if all goes ok with him in next 3 weeks come his blood tests they will try and reduce the medication to 30mg per day instead of 45mg per day and hopefully the itching and lumps may reduce. It does state in the leaflet with the tabs that can be a side effect. Will just need to take things day by day with him. The steriods takie the discomfort out his itching and stops him being distressed so i am happy enough with that for now til we can get a long term solution if the lumps and itching continues. They will monitor it closely so i am happy enough. Just dont want my boy in any more discomfort or stress
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Got some good news on Ollie today. His latest blood test have come back and the level of the Phenobarbital is still high. As Ollie has not had any more fits the vet is reducing his tablets to One tablet twice a day now. And hopefully from now on start to reduce it every few weeks til we get a lever that will be low enough but still control the fits.
So So happy. Also he no longer needs the steroids as the lumps and bumps seen to have gone. Got some on hand in case it starts up again but so happy my we boy is getting a lot less drugs in him.
Hopefully he will get a bit steadier on his back legs. Ollie will be a happy boy
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That is great news!
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That's great news ;D
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Thanks everyone. Its just a waiting game now to see how he goes. The vet wants him to loose a we bit weight so we will be visiting the vet every couple weeks so everything is controlled, Thankfully Ollie likes his trips to the vet
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Onwards and upwards for Ollie, this is all sounding so positive ;D
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Well Ollies blood tests came back today and average level of pheno in blood should be 160 and he is 179 so his meds getting reduced again so quite pleased. well very please. Just a slow reduction so he going fromk 1 tab twice daily to 3/4 a tab twice daily and he will get blood tests done again in 2 weeks time. Hopefully he will stay seizure free. Tink he will be ok just now but as the levels drop thens when it will get scary
Also worried about his poor we skin. Its ike torture to him with all the scratching so I have had to put him back on the sterods. its a lot for him with the pheno and the steroids but his quality of life must come first.
Zoe
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Good news about the bloods but such a shame he's so aggrevated with his skin :( I wonder whether the reduction in meds will help the skin - did it start when he went on the meds?
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It started about a month after the meds but it comes and goes it's very strange. He been ok for a while but now it's worse than e er his poor skin is
getting red raw worse than it was on the very high dose of meds. Could be
unrealted . Will speak to vet. It's hard as we trying not to mess with him cause of blood tests
and dose change in meds . Meds have gonedown quite a bit
zoe
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Poor little love, your vet should hopefully have an idea whether the meds have trigger it off or maybe the stress of the illness? hope you get it sorted anyway :hug:
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Boy am I tired. It is often funny how things work. I was thinking to myself yesterday that I was so happy that Leo has not needed an enema in 5+ weeks! Also he has not had a seizure in quite some time, and I was wondering if he would have another soon or the trend may continue. I suppose I should not have given it thought in the end. He woke me about 12:30ih in the morning with what I believe to be the most violent grand-mal he has ever had in my company. The shaking did not register right away as I was in some moronic dream that had Merv Griffin chasing me down a long white tiled hall and I was tossing bars of soap behind me in hopes of causing him to slip and fall, but I digress. It took me a bit to wake and clear the fog enough to reach out to him, perhaps 30 seconds had passed. I flipped on the light and placed my hand on his side while he was thrashing and I was telling him it was okay and I would help. It seizure, being abnormally violent, lasted perhaps another minute to 90 seconds, giving him 1.5 minutes or 2 minutes of his worst seizure I know of. Normally Leo does not foam at the mouth, but as he thrashed I realized it looked like someone put shaving cream all around his mouth. When the grand-mal stopped, he let out the longest yowl I ever heard from him and it was really loud and gurgled. Then his front legs began to twitch, or make a paddle motion, but it was not a seizure. This one was just not normal for him and I opted to call the vet into the office right away. While I waited for the vet to return my call I gave him some valium, since his norm is 2 or 3 grand-mals I decided to attempt to nip the others in the bud before they had a chance to manifest. We took him to the vet’s office shortly after and spent a while there. He checked out no different than normal, other than he just had his worst seizure ever and he was drooling. He did start into a period where he has the petite-mals that lead into the next grand-mal, but the valium seems to have done it’s intended job and the petite-mals did not escalate into multiple grand-mals for the first time in a long while. We got home about 3:30am and after a little while I got Leo to remain in his bed and I was able to go to sleep.
This morning he was excited to get up, though a bit wobbly on his feet. He was eager to eat and gobbled all his food right down and then managed to have a bowel movement, which pleased me since it means another day or two enema free. Over all he is doing well today, though you can tell a bit tired.
I so badly wish that I did not feel so darn helpless each time he has one. You would think that after 10 years you would get used to them and it would not phase you all that much, but that is just not the case.
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So sorry that Leo has been ill again and what you describe is just like what has happened to Franta in the past.....last time in Feb his seizures werfe the mildest I have seen and he only had 3 and one was brought on by a stupid vetm but luckily happened 10 mins after we got back into house, cos one in the car is just the most terrible thing.
Franta drools every where and that is often the sign that one is starting, together with teeth chattering. The howling at the end is terrible.
I do hope that Leo stabalizes quick cos it is so exhausting being in this situation :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Hi David, got your PM and have read all this post - so sorry Leo isn't himself at the moment. :Luv2: :hug:
Don;t worry about catching up on emails - you and Donna concentrate on Leo and we'll speak later.
It's so nice that you and Gill and Zoe can compare notes - I adore Franta - he's Bonnie's boyfriend - when you have time see: http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,11972.msg203644.html#msg203644
Mary
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How's Leo doing now David? hope he's ok. :hug:
Mary
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Really hope Leo doing well??
Zoe & Ollie
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I hope Leo is doing ok?
Our cat is also has epilepsy, now well controlled with Phenobarbital and, if the way she was chasing butterflies round the garden today is anything to go by, she now has a great quality of life.
Daisy is about 2 now and was diagnosed with epilepsy just over a year ago. Initially her Grand mal episodes were every 2 weeks, (2 or more fits in a 24 hour period) or so but she had petite mals much more frequently. Her grand mals are now once every 3 months or so and she rarely clusters (has multiple fits in a short space of time) and the petite mals are very rare now.
A few pointers I've learned after living with a young epileptic cat which may be of interest are:-
1. As soon as a fit starts turn off all lights and sound sources. Keep the room as quiet as possible.
2. Do not touch or talk to a fitting cat. Ensure safety by using cushions as buffers, but it is important that your own physical energies do not come into contact with the cat, this can prolong the fit or trigger another.
3. Once recovery has reached the stage of the cat moving and/or vocalising, offer food. I've never risked a blood test but I'd swear that Daisy's blood sugar levels plummet after a fit. Cuddles and re-assurance may be sought/offered at this point but take your cue from the cat.
4. A post fit cat may wander about a bit in a disoriented fashion. Try offering covered beds/cardboard box beds. The cat will soon settle for a long sleep. Again it is important to keep the room where the cat is sleeping quiet and dark. A baby monitor is useful for keeping a check on a recovering cat without disturbing it and risking further fits. A feliway in the room really seems to help
5. Don’t give up on the pheno. It is awful at first but if your cat eventually learns to handle it and once the dose is right, the results can be fantastic.
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Yogi, so wonderful to have another owner with a cat having seizures.................I mean for help and comparison rather than good cos your cat has etc :-[
Franta has seizures but is not diagnosed with epilepsy but the thing about food is bang on and both Zoe and I have discovered this, Franta was actually tested for his sugar levels at the vets, the only time he had a seizure in sight of a vet and she said that his sugar level did not drop. He does however devour a dish of cat food , lumps and all and he will not touch a lump normally.....sigh
There is a thread on hear all about Franta and his case history from the first time he started acting strange, its a very long thread and if you look in the thread stats its there and can be accessed from there.
I have found that talking to Franta gently seems to help and its very quiet here but have learned not to attempt to touch him cos its very dangerous.
Because of Frantas age..........nearly 17 now.........he was not able to have mri and tests but is treated at the time by injections for 7 days of a very powerful anti-biotic and his last bout was in early feb but he only had 3 seizures ansd one was brought on by a very stressful visit to the vets and 10 mins after we arrived back. But for the first time since he was taken ill a year ago the seizures were very mild. he is being gtreated as for a brain infection, rather than epilepsy...........and it sems to be working but hius seizures are the same as an epileptic cat so i aam interested in everything that maybe helpful.
thank you for posting :hug: :hug:
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Hi Gill,
It is great to find somewhere to talk to others who care for cats who have fits; it is so terrifying when it happens. It is good to hear that Franta’s underlying condition has been diagnosed and is responding to treatment. I’ll read your diary thread with great interest.
Our Daisy’s epilepsy is thought to be cryptogenic (no known cause) possibly idiopathic (inherited) but we do not know enough about her family history to ever be sure with that one. It is probable that her fits began when she was less than a year old. She was re-homed at least twice in her first year, poor little mite.
I’m very interested to read about Franta’s blood sugar tests, I’d often wondered about that; now I’m wondering what the increased appetite is all about. Daisy also eats anything, frantically, post fit. I’m lucky in that my tom cat appears to have taken Daisy into his special care when she “has the shakies” and will let me know if anything is wrong. I'm blessed :)
Jill
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Hello all. Thanks for the well wishing for Leo.
Leo is a lot better from that big grand-mal. It generally takes him 24 to 48 hours to shake it off.
Gill: You are lucky that Franta gives you a good sign one is coming. It is possible Leo does as well, but since I adopted him (2000) every seizure except 3 have happened between 11:30pm and 4am. He sleeps on the bed with me, so every time it wakes me and I snap into action. The 3 times they happened in day hours: one I was at work in 2001 and he had it on the webcam my website runs. I figured what happened and ran straight home. The next time was while I was traveling and he had it in front of my girlfriend. The last time was middle of the day while I was at work. Beyond that there is no visible clue to one coming, though I seem to be able to sense them 48 to 5 hours before they happen. Not sure how I usually know since it is not a behavior change in him I can put my finger on.
Mary: Hi! I’ll respond soon to your email I have just been slammed this week again between work, sales and consulting and finalizing my tax return (I HATE tax day in the USA)
Puggy1975 Zoe: Yes, Leo is a lot better now, thank you for asking. :)
YogiDot: I suspect that by the time you reach this part of my post you surmised Leo is fine now. ;) He is on Phenobarb and has been on it since 1999. The level he is on keeps the grand-mals down to once every 2 to 3 months now, though he tends to have clusters when it happens. Lowering the phenobarb levels only causes far more frequent grand-mals and upping the dose does not seem to push them more than every 3 months but also just wipes him out.
On your points: Noise… Since they happen at night 99.9% of the time, I do not believe it could be more quiet or darker.
Touching: I would not put my fingers near his mouth or attempt to hold him down, but placing my hand on his side and quietly talking to him is something I believe allows him to know I am there. He could not be more cushioned as he sleeps in a 14 inch diameter cup with 6 inch walls. He is quit snug in there and loves his bed. We do have several as after a seizure they require washing.
Recovery: Leo has a lot more wrong than just the seizures. He was an abused kitten and also suffers some brain damage, balance issues and more. Trying to get him to take food when he is seizureless is challenge enough. He has a very hard time finding the food and getting it out of the bowl without often chewing on his cheek or lip. :( He is very disoriented after for a while, and between each grand-mal when they cluster, but I have learned how to help him through this. Once he has the seizures (whether or not I call my vet into his office at 3am) I will stay up with him until he falls asleep again. Usually that means I stay up the rest of the night.
If I ever leave on a trip and am gone more than 48 hours, the likelihood of a grand-mal becomes 100%. It is strange. So if I go on a trip he comes now. He handles the air travel and new place far better than my not being around. I guess he is very bonded to me. Actually he is flying from here (Montana USA) to New Jersey next month with us. A 10 hour+ day from leaving our home to arrival at my moms door, but he is such a trooper, and he LOVES my mom’s home and being the only cat there.
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Franta isnt really diagnosed, its just a guess but the abs seem to work at present.
Interestly......ummmmm he has just arrrived lol.............Franta is also much more susceptable to having a seizure if i have been out all day and he is now almost glued to me all of the time.
most of time i dont see the seizure coming but hear it happening upstairs.....sigh
but the first one of the last lot, started while he was on my knee and took me a fraction too long to realize. luckily it was quite mild compareed to previos ones.
sorry for typos but trying to type sideways and stop him gripping me lol
its so great to exchange knowledge here :hug:
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I'm glad to hear that Leo is fine now. And that the pheno has worked so well for him for so long! That is really great to hear.
With the touching I think it is very cat specific and with Daisy her reactions to a fit often depend on the trigger.
Mostly Daisy fits late at night or very early in the morning, when she is sound asleep. It almost seems as if there is some sort of build up of something in her and I get clues about when the fit is going to happen - she has a period of hyper-activity about a week before, then gets really lethargic and starts hanging her head a lot. In fact I think she is just progressing towards one now.
Sometimes loud noises trigger them, once a rock concert right outside our window (we've moved away from that area now) caused her to cluster fit. With the noise triggered fits she is much more sensitive to outside stimuli and it is with those I have to be really careful about not triggering another by touching or even whispering to her. I noticed once that a fading fit kicked off again when I brought my hand to within a few centimeters of her, when I removed my hand she calmed again. It hurts like hell not being able to comfort her at those times. I imagine each animal reacts differently and we just have to take it as it comes.
As it is only just over a year since Daisy’s diagnosis it is still early days with but currently the pattern is every 3 or 4 months.
Coolcybercat, what sort of balance issues does Leo have? Daisy can fall off a 2cm high rug, and I mean really fall, right over flat on her side! I have to be very careful about keeping her safe and we play special games to try to improve her balance and muscle tone. Leo’s cup sounds amazing, any chance of a photo?
Gill, I had to laugh at the problems Franta is giving you with typing – Skye is beside me at the moment insisting that all mousies have to be caught, even odd looking ones in Meowmy’s hand :rofl:
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Hi YogiDot,
The cups I use for Leo are heated (plug in) as he loves the warmth. Here is a shot of him in one
(http://www.mt.net/~rhawk/EbayAds/4Pets/Thermo/LeoNewCup2.jpg)
Here he is in a heated window sill bed
(http://www.mt.net/~rhawk/EbayAds/4Pets/Thermo/LeoSuperSillBright.jpg)
And this is him (and Orion) on the heated mat on themain couch.
(http://www.mt.net/~rhawk/EbayAds/4Pets/Thermo/CoolCyberCatsMat.jpg)
And this is a live image (7am - 7pm MDT) of the computer room couch. THe mat tohte left is heated. THe rest are other beds. Often Leo will be on the mat.
(http://www.mt.net/~rhawk/catcam4.jpg)
Leo's balance issues are due to his brain damage. He can just fall over while walking. He can't run, and if he tries his back legs flop and he will either almost role head over heals or he will fall. So he cannot really run. He also has an odd stance.
Another of our cat's favorite beds is the cloud bed. Attached is an image of Andromeda in one.
I used to sell them, but they never sold well, even though I thought they were the bees knees, and so does our cats. So I have a bunch just sitting in a plastic tub wrapped in plastic. It was/is a shame that the best products I found are not always ones people are willing to get. Oh well.
David
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Oh wow look at Leo! isn't he a handsome boy! Andromeda and Orion look fantastic too.
As for Leo's bed, every epileptic cat should have one of those! Amazing! How safe must they be in there!
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Lovely photos :Luv:
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Well, had a bad start. Our power went out about 10:30pm/ I assume caused by the heavy wet snow on power lines somewhere. Then about 1pm Leo woke me with a seizure. His last grand-mal was only 15 days ago, which is not good. I was having a problem since it was dark and there was no power. Thankfully the power came back about 1:30am. It is now 4:45am and I am laying here with Leo. I tend to not go back to sleep after he has a seizure, so I guess I won’t be sleeping tonight.
His seizure was not as bad as the one 15 days ago,thankfully.
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poor Leo, speaking from experience he is probably feeling pretty rough
sorry to hear about the power cut, snow yuk
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sending lots of love to leo :hug: :hug:
snowwwwwwwwwwwww................doesnt bear thinking about brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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snowwwwwwwwwwwww................doesnt bear thinking about brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Yes, sadly. I had to go out to brush off the new trees before I left for work. It was about 1.5 feet deep and still snowing! It is May (okay a day or 2 off)! I hate Montana mountain weather!
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May tomorrow!
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Hope Leo's going to be ok on the journey to your mum's next week David.
We had snow for one hour last week but it didn't stick. Nothing but rain all day today - April showers all in one day I think.
Mary