Topic: Congestive Heart Failure (Read 7022 times)

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #39 on:** June 26, 2011, 13:28:48 PM »

So pleased he is under a top specialist and I am sure she knows what she is doing.

I hope the next 4 weeks goes really well for him

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #38 on:** June 26, 2011, 11:13:53 AM »

Quote from: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 25, 2011, 22:49:55 PM

I think this is good news and really hope so

The cost was a lot and hope that your vet is sure about the rupture cos from a total laymans perspective I would be worried about any leak and not sure that a kidney repairs its self.

I hope that he gets well and strong but suspect that the leak may cause continuous infections and purrrsonally I would be worried.

I apologize if this post of mine further worries you but just wondering if you need to ask your vet more questions that are not thought of when you are so worried.

I really hope that I am wrong and that your vet is absolutely right and your boy gets well

Thank you.

My cardiologist made sure that my cat seen the top feline specialist at the Dick vets in Edinburgh so I have confidence in her.........like you, I am concerned about the rupture/leak still being there but I have to put my faith in them that they know what they are doing, because I don't have a clue.

He goes back to either see her or to his cardiologist, whoever can provide an appointment first in 4 weeks so any I will ask any questions that still concern me then - that perhaps being one of them.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #37 on:** June 25, 2011, 22:49:55 PM »

I think this is good news and really hope so

The cost was a lot and hope that your vet is sure about the rupture cos from a total laymans perspective I would be worried about any leak and not sure that a kidney repairs its self.

I hope that he gets well and strong but suspect that the leak may cause continuous infections and purrrsonally I would be worried.

I apologize if this post of mine further worries you but just wondering if you need to ask your vet more questions that are not thought of when you are so worried.

I really hope that I am wrong and that your vet is absolutely right and your boy gets well

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #36 on:** June 25, 2011, 22:33:33 PM »

Harvey had his CT scan on Thursday, luckily they found no tumours/cancer and found no other abnormalities (other than a small infacrt in the kidney). So, their diagnosis is that it is 'idiopathic chylothorax'. They feel that the changes were most likely a result of chronic inflammatory reaction.

So, he's still on his diuretics and he's to now get rutin and he's on a low fat diet too. He is to remain on this for now and if he remains the same/or improves then he will just be left like this as we can control it........but if his condition worsens then he will require surgery to sew up the rupture. The vet felt that it is only a very tiny leak at the moment so there is no point putting him through surgery at this time.

I have never been so worried about him but at least now we have an idea what we are facing and we'll just have to take each day as it comes. Thank goodness for insurance - the consultation and CT scan cost £1300!

Dawn F · « **Reply #35 on:** June 11, 2011, 20:28:38 PM »

good luck for next week

cazzer · « **Reply #34 on:** June 11, 2011, 18:50:10 PM »

sorry to hear the news about your boy. Hope they find out what the problem is soon

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #33 on:** June 11, 2011, 18:12:50 PM »

Thanks everyone - it's a really worrying time for me...........he's not the least bit bothered, you can't even tell there's anything wrong with him.

They drained some of the fluid on Tuesday when he was in - I should get an appointment this week sometime for the CT scan. Cardiologist was going to phone me Mon/Tues. Fingers crossed I can time off work on the date that they pick for him!

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #32 on:** June 07, 2011, 23:13:37 PM »

sorry to hear that

presumably they will drain the fluid surgically now?

Jiji · « **Reply #31 on:** June 07, 2011, 21:29:55 PM »

Sorry the news was not good, fingers crossed they can get things sorted quickly for Harvey.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #30 on:** June 07, 2011, 19:08:14 PM »

I am sorry and hope they can find out what is wrong quickly

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #29 on:** June 07, 2011, 18:36:06 PM »

Not good news at the cardiologist today - the diuretics haven't taken the fluid away, in fact, it has increased slightly. So, my wee boy has to go the vet school for a CT scan to rule out any tumours/cancer - they can't see anyting but if it's really small the only way to tell is at a scan. If they don't find anything, then he's go for a major operation where they open up the chest area to see if they can find what is causing the problem, and fix it. The cardiologist is going to get me the best person up there for Harvey.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #28 on:** May 20, 2011, 23:09:09 PM »

This sounds good, keep going Harvey you are doing well

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #27 on:** May 20, 2011, 21:33:42 PM »

Harvey got on well at the vets on Tuesday, he didn't have to have any fluid drained - which I was happy about. He appears fine to them so far and they don't notice anything different about his breathing so I've just to keep an eye on him and he goes back in for another check-up next Friday.......then the cardiologist on the 7 June.

I've asked them about Rutin and they don't see any harm with putting him on it just now, so going to buy some of that and see what difference that makes to him.

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2011, 16:53:37 PM »

Quote from: Gillian (Ambercat) on May 12, 2011, 13:57:27 PM

Quote from: Angeladeedah on May 12, 2011, 11:04:19 AM
- I will put him through an operation if it is absolutely necessary but with his heart murmur I'm really scared to put him through it.

If the diurectics don't do the trick an op to drain the fluid will be essential if it continues to build up. My Sam's HCM was a concern, but because he was already at the vets having his scan, when my vet phoned me to tell the diagnosis of HCM and that there was fluid present, I had to make a quick decision to let them go ahead with the drain and as it was already affecting his breathing badly there was no option really. In a way, I'm glad I didnt have too much time to think about it But he came through it fine

Thank you - that gives me comfort that Sam made it through the operation ok. Your right, I've got too much time to think about it all..........and too much time to read up on it all on the internet!

The only reason they haven't operated on him so far is because Harvey's breathing appears to be ok just now - the second it does appear off though, I'll have him at the vets as quick as a flash. They said when he goes in for his check-up on Tuesday that they might have to syringe drain some of the fluid but they'll see how he is. I'm hoping that he doesn't have to have an operation but to be totally honest I think that's what eventually will happen.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2011, 13:57:27 PM »

Quote from: Angeladeedah on May 12, 2011, 11:04:19 AM

- I will put him through an operation if it is absolutely necessary but with his heart murmur I'm really scared to put him through it.

If the diurectics don't do the trick an op to drain the fluid will be essential if it continues to build up. My Sam's HCM was a concern, but because he was already at the vets having his scan, when my vet phoned me to tell the diagnosis of HCM and that there was fluid present, I had to make a quick decision to let them go ahead with the drain and as it was already affecting his breathing badly there was no option really. In a way, I'm glad I didnt have too much time to think about it

But he came through it fine

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2011, 12:23:51 PM »

Quote from: Gill (sneakiefeline) on May 12, 2011, 11:06:46 AM

AS I dont understand most of tehe medical stuff I dont know if this is good or bad?

But sending loads of get well vibes

Thank you - the illness itself is bad but I think where Harvey is with it is a little good and it's been caught at the very early stages. I just want him to get as much time left as I can give him. I was always told that because of his heart murmur he would only live until he was 4 - 6 years old. He's now 5 and I always hoped he would prove them wrong but it looks like they'll be proved right but fingers crossed we can get longer out of him. He's always been a wee fighter over the years.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2011, 11:06:46 AM »

AS I dont understand most of tehe medical stuff I dont know if this is good or bad?

But sending loads of get well vibes

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #22 on:** May 12, 2011, 11:04:19 AM »

I finally managed to speak to the vet - so, its definitely chylothorax. What we are doing first is trying him on the dierutics to see if it takes away the fluid. He will see the cardiologist again on 7 June but he goes in on Tuesday for a check-up with the vet and they will drain the fluid if necessary, depending on how he is doing. It might be eventually he does have to go for the operation but not at this exact moment - I will put him through an operation if it is absolutely necessary but with his heart murmur I'm really scared to put him through it.

Going to ask the vet on Tuesday about putting him on Rutin too as it appears to be really beneficial to cats with chylothorax.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2011, 23:16:21 PM »

Quote from: Angeladeedah on May 10, 2011, 19:00:09 PM

but that's not true when I'm reading up on chyloflorax. Weight loss is a symptom.

And also a symptom of HCM. I know what its like trying to take everything in I always have to write everything down too!

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #20 on:** May 10, 2011, 19:00:09 PM »

Quote from: Gillian (Ambercat) on May 08, 2011, 20:13:30 PM

Quote from: Angeladeedah on May 08, 2011, 18:23:12 PM
He already has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy - the cardiologist didn't seem to think they were connected though. He said something else usually brings on the chylothorax. I'll mention Rutin to them tomorrow and see what they say and when's the best time to put him on it.

Hmmm, surprised to hear the cardiologist doesnt think its connected, heart disease IS one of the main cause of chylothorax. With HCM the heart enlarges and the heart walls thicken, which can affect the way chyle flows and cause the chylothorax. Sam's HCM was already advanced when he was scanned, but he did well on the rutin and the taurine supplement right till the end really when he went into congestive heart failure. This is one of the reports on the use of rutin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539228/ - this was a case of idiopathic cylothorax, there was no primary cause in this case i.e. heart disease.

Good to hear his breathing is normal

Thank you - I've had a quick scan through the report but I'll print it off and get a good read at it. To be totally honest, I'm perhaps picking everything up wrong from the cardiologist - I was in a bit of a panic state because it was a shock to the system. One thing is the weight loss - now, I said to the guy about that as Harvey has lost 500g since December but I have had him on a diet so it's hard to now tell if it's due to this or the diet. I did ask the cardiologist and he said there was nothing connected to the weight loss, but that's not true when I'm reading up on chyloflorax. Weight loss is a symptom. So, I'm beginning to lose my faith a little bit in him and am thinking perhaps Edinburgh's vet school is the actually the place I want to take Harvey to see the specialists.

The vet phoned me this morning but unfortunately phoned me at the house so I was too late to return her call but I'll phone her first thing tomorrow - she just wants to go over it all with me to make sure that I understand what's wrong and how we progress forward. I'll keep a note pad beside me and write it all down. And I'll ask about the Rutin.

Thank you - you have been a big help to me.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2011, 20:13:30 PM »

Quote from: Angeladeedah on May 08, 2011, 18:23:12 PM

He already has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy - the cardiologist didn't seem to think they were connected though. He said something else usually brings on the chylothorax. I'll mention Rutin to them tomorrow and see what they say and when's the best time to put him on it.

Hmmm, surprised to hear the cardiologist doesnt think its connected, heart disease IS one of the main cause of chylothorax. With HCM the heart enlarges and the heart walls thicken, which can affect the way chyle flows and cause the chylothorax. Sam's HCM was already advanced when he was scanned, but he did well on the rutin and the taurine supplement right till the end really when he went into congestive heart failure. This is one of the reports on the use of rutin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC539228/ - this was a case of idiopathic cylothorax, there was no primary cause in this case i.e. heart disease.

Good to hear his breathing is normal

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2011, 18:23:12 PM »

Quote from: Gillian (Ambercat) on May 08, 2011, 16:58:24 PM

Definitely mention using Rutin to your vet, there are some studies showing positive effects of it on chylothorax/chylous fluid. Have they definitely ruled out cardiomyopathy? as that is one of the main causes of cylothorax (although it can be idiopathic). My Sam was on rutin after his fluid was drained, and the fluid never built up again.

He already has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy - the cardiologist didn't seem to think they were connected though. He said something else usually brings on the chylothorax. I'll mention Rutin to them tomorrow and see what they say and when's the best time to put him on it.

The positive thing is that he has shown no sign of ever having this - his breathing has been normal and his behaviour has just been the same. Even the cardiologist never noticed anything untoward until he done the scan to monitor his heart murmur, then that's when it was discovered. So, it's been caught at the really early stages.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #17 on:** May 08, 2011, 16:58:24 PM »

Definitely mention using Rutin to your vet, there are some studies showing positive effects of it on chylothorax/chylous fluid. Have they definitely ruled out cardiomyopathy? as that is one of the main causes of cylothorax (although it can be idiopathic). My Sam was on rutin after his fluid was drained, and the fluid never built up again.

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2011, 13:43:40 PM »

Quote from: Amanda (mad4moggies) on May 08, 2011, 11:35:16 AM

I would agree with you Rosella. I think it would be good to get the opinion of a medicine specialist as sometimes a chylothorax does needs to be treated surgically if medicine is not working. I think it all depends on the reason for the chylothorax and sometimes you need to do bloods and xrays/ultrasound to find this out. If it is heart related then medicine may work but if not then surgery may be required to ligate the thoracic duct which should correct the situation.

Is Harvey already on diuretics? The only reason i say that it might be best to try and see a specialist on Monday is because chylothorax can turn into a more serious situation if it starts to make it harder for Harvey to breathe.

I`m a vet nurse but i`m not a vet so they would be able to tell you a bit more.

Fingers crossed that they sort this out for you tomorrow.

The vet I spoke to yesterday seemed to suggest that surgery was the way forward but that I would have to go the specialist department at Edinburgh vet's school as my usual vet isn't able to carry it out as it involves opening up the chest - but the cardiologist has put him on diuretics and upped his dose once he got the results, then we go back to see him on 7 June (so 4 weeks later) so that he can see if the tablets are helping shift the fluid.

I think perhaps the cardiologist's thoughts have perhaps been to try the diuretics first before surgery, as Harvey has a heart murmur so there are even more risks for him. I'll ask that question tomorrow.

Thanks guys - that's a been massive help to me today and helps me understand it a bit more.

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #15 on:** May 08, 2011, 13:37:01 PM »

Quote from: Rosella moggy on May 08, 2011, 09:30:50 AM

I think I would lay more weight on info provided by and way forward suggested by specialist esp as the normal vet you spoke to doesn't know Harvey. It is very bad that you are being given seemingly conflicting info.

Suggest you or vet writes something down when you next discuss so that you can digest properly. Meanwhile write down all queries as they occur to you so you can remember everything when you next speak to them, If you are anything like me, panic takes over when given bad news about a much loved cat

Thanks - I'm going to write everything down next time and perhaps take my Mum with me too as she's a bit savvy when it comes to medical terminology. Your right - you get swamped with all the information that they're throwing at you and it's very difficult to digest what they're saying, let alone remember it all.

The vet that Harvey normally sees will speak to the cardiologist on Monday so hopefully between the 2 of them they can give me proper advice. There is the vet school in Edinburgh which has a specialist department for this so if I'm not at all happy with anything I won't hesitate to go there - from what the vet said yesterday, it looks like that's where Harvey might have to end up going anyway. My cats are my absolute world and I will do everything that I can to help my wee boy.

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #14 on:** May 08, 2011, 11:35:16 AM »

I would agree with you Rosella. I think it would be good to get the opinion of a medicine specialist as sometimes a chylothorax does needs to be treated surgically if medicine is not working. I think it all depends on the reason for the chylothorax and sometimes you need to do bloods and xrays/ultrasound to find this out. If it is heart related then medicine may work but if not then surgery may be required to ligate the thoracic duct which should correct the situation.

Is Harvey already on diuretics? The only reason i say that it might be best to try and see a specialist on Monday is because chylothorax can turn into a more serious situation if it starts to make it harder for Harvey to breathe.

I`m a vet nurse but i`m not a vet so they would be able to tell you a bit more.

Fingers crossed that they sort this out for you tomorrow.

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2011, 09:30:50 AM »

I think I would lay more weight on info provided by and way forward suggested by specialist esp as the normal vet you spoke to doesn't know Harvey. It is very bad that you are being given seemingly conflicting info.

Suggest you or vet writes something down when you next discuss so that you can digest properly. Meanwhile write down all queries as they occur to you so you can remember everything when you next speak to them, If you are anything like me, panic takes over when given bad news about a much loved cat

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2011, 09:17:24 AM »

Quote from: Gill (sneakiefeline) on May 07, 2011, 19:07:37 PM

This is so bad when they dont know what they are talking about!

Sending lots of good vibes and hope you get a proper answer on Monday

Thank you - hopefully I'll know what's what on Monday.

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2011, 09:16:40 AM »

Quote from: cazzer on May 07, 2011, 17:43:25 PM

hope you find out what's going on soon

Thank you.

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2011, 09:12:06 AM »

Quote from: Amanda (mad4moggies) on May 07, 2011, 23:20:51 PM

I`m so sorry to hear that Harvey`s results weren`t as good as you had hoped. Chylothorax occurs when lymphatic fluid drains into the chest cavity as the vets may have already explained to you. It can happy for a number of reasons and sometimes vets cannot actually find the cause of it.

It might be worth asking to be referred to a specialist as an emergency on Monday so that Harvey can be treated whilst he is well in himself. That way then can make a proper diagnosis and go through all of the options with you.

Wishing you and Harvey the best

Thank you - that's the name they gave me 'chylothorax'. The cardiologist and vet are going to speak to each other on Monday then give me a call to let me know what's what as they're both saying conflicting things. Cardiologist wants to try diuretics first and see him on 7 June - vets are telling me he needs to go to the vet school for an operation.

Amanda (mad4moggies) · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2011, 23:20:51 PM »

I`m so sorry to hear that Harvey`s results weren`t as good as you had hoped. Chylothorax occurs when lymphatic fluid drains into the chest cavity as the vets may have already explained to you. It can happy for a number of reasons and sometimes vets cannot actually find the cause of it.

It might be worth asking to be referred to a specialist as an emergency on Monday so that Harvey can be treated whilst he is well in himself. That way then can make a proper diagnosis and go through all of the options with you.

Wishing you and Harvey the best

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2011, 19:07:37 PM »

This is so bad when they dont know what they are talking about!

Sending lots of good vibes and hope you get a proper answer on Monday

cazzer · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2011, 17:43:25 PM »

hope you find out what's going on soon

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2011, 15:37:03 PM »

Well, I'm even more confused now - I went into the vet's today to hand in my insurance form and spoke to one of the vets (not one that knows Harvey) as they had telephoned and left a message for me yesterday.

They got the results and they're saying it's not congestive heart failure but something to do with the lympths (I can't remember the fancy name they gave for it) and that he'll have to go to the vet school for an operation as they can't do it because they have to open up the chest. I'm getting conflicting information from the vet and cardiologist to the point where all I know is there is fluid around the heart and he's not a well boy (not that you could tell that from looking at him).

So, the vet is going to speak to the cardiologist, sort it out between themselves and call me on Monday to give a further update. If they don't know what they're doing, how on earth am I supposed to understand.

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2011, 10:40:45 AM »

Quote from: Gillian (Ambercat) on May 03, 2011, 19:51:46 PM

Sorry to hear the diagnosis here's hoping he has a lot longer. My Sam had HCM and went into congestive heart failure. It was probably a genetic thing with Sam and he was 12 when I lost him last year, so he'd done quite well. He was only diagnosed 2 years previously and he'd had to have fluid drained straight away. After that he was on medication, diuretics and fortekor - plus I had him on supplements of taurine (good for the heart) and rutin (Sam's fluid was tested and was found to be chyle, so after doing some research I asked my vet if it would be ok to put him on rutin as this is supposed to be good for chylous effusions).

I'd recommend joining the Feline Heart group on Yahoo, it was a huge help to me when Sam was first diagnosed. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/

Thank you - I'll definitely have a look at joining the group. I'm sorry to hear about Sam - it's so heartbreaking when you know something is wrong with them and you are powerless to do anything.

Got the results yesterday for the fluid and it's the same as Sam - it's chyle so I've to up his diuretics and I take him back on 7 June to see the cardiologist again. He said yesterday that because even although he has a heart murmur his heart is actually in good condition and because he's only 5 - we're going to try to keep him going for as long as possible. So, at the moment he can't really say how long he has because otherwise he is in really good health. But like Sam, I'm thinking 2 years and anything more is a bonus. He so doesn't deserve it, he's a lovable big softy and it's so no fair. They all love him at the vets because he just lies flat out on the table and purrs away, whilst being petted by all the girls.

Gillian Harvey · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2011, 19:51:46 PM »

Sorry to hear the diagnosis

here's hoping he has a lot longer. My Sam had HCM and went into congestive heart failure. It was probably a genetic thing with Sam and he was 12 when I lost him last year, so he'd done quite well. He was only diagnosed 2 years previously and he'd had to have fluid drained straight away. After that he was on medication, diuretics and fortekor - plus I had him on supplements of taurine (good for the heart) and rutin (Sam's fluid was tested and was found to be chyle, so after doing some research I asked my vet if it would be ok to put him on rutin as this is supposed to be good for chylous effusions).

I'd recommend joining the Feline Heart group on Yahoo, it was a huge help to me when Sam was first diagnosed. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-heart/

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2011, 18:36:31 PM »

Quote from: Gill (sneakiefeline) on May 03, 2011, 17:33:45 PM

So sorry to hear this and pleased you caught it early

Sorry dont know anything about this but hope hye can dumbfound the vets

Thank you - they had already said a few years ago that he would only live til he was 4 - 6 years old (he's now 5) because of the heart murmur but you can't really tell anymore that he has one because of the medication..........now, he has something else to prove them wrong!

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2011, 17:33:45 PM »

So sorry to hear this and pleased you caught it early

Sorry dont know anything about this but hope hye can dumbfound the vets

Angeladeedah · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2011, 17:02:44 PM »

Well, not good news at the cardiologist today........Harvey went in for his yearly check-up for his heart murmur (HCM) and they have discovered that he has congestive heart failure. They've taken the fluid away for testing and I'll get the results on Friday. He said it was perfect timing that we've caught it before it got any worse - if it had been left we'd be looking at 16 - 18 months left to live but now, we might have a bit longer.

It was so hard not to cry at the vets and I'm trying to look at the posive that it's been caught quiet early. I'd went in thinking it would just be a normal routine check-up, because of the medication you can hardly tell that he has a heart murmur now but this has devastated me.

Just wondered if anyone else had gone through this with their cat and if there was anything else that could be recommended to relieve the symptoms, I'm well prepared that it can't be cured.

Author Topic: Congestive Heart Failure (Read 7022 times)