Author Topic: Help with raw diet please  (Read 14262 times)

Offline Genevieve

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2011, 21:25:56 PM »
 :wow: thank you for your help, seriously considering it  :thanks: :)

Offline paddypaws101

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2011, 14:54:43 PM »
The easiest way by far is to buy a ready made, properly balanced food which is referred to as complete. I use www.naturalinstinct.com or others may prefer http://www.darlingsrealcatfood.com/. http://rawtogo.co.uk/default.aspx is another option but I have heard there can be issues with the freshness/quality of their meat and also the ratios of bone:meat:offal are not always ideal for cats.
You could go out today and get some minced beef or minced turkey thigh from any supermarket and try the cat on this straight away as an introduction....this is NOT suitable for long term feeding as the bulk of the diet but is a useful stop gap or treat. Guidelines say you can feed up to 20% of the total diet ( 3 meals a week) as these unbalanced treat meals.
Persuading a cat to eat chunks of meat or even better meat on the bone such as chicken wings is what is really ideal for dental health, but not all cats are willing to work that hard!
Raw food works absolute wonders on cat poop consistency and smell!

Offline Genevieve

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2011, 11:45:12 AM »
hi, new to this site.... i have an indoor cat and have been told that a raw diet is good for smells, whats the est way to introduce raw into my cats diet and do i need to add anything to it for vitamins or calcium?

thanks x

Offline Fire Fox

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2010, 14:07:19 PM »
 :thanks: Pinball for the advice. I e-mailed a few days ago to ask about the bone content but have not had a reply.

I have heart, liver and kidney in stock and would add all three (always refer to heart as offal :doh:). Noah is only partially raw fed - mainly Bozita on other days - so I don't calculate the ratio of muscle meat to bone. Recently he has been having Value frozen chicken drumsticks which are only £1.40 a kilo but battery meat.  :( Noah does enjoy the whole bone and it is good for his teeth ...
:'( My beautiful Noah rescued 13/02/09, adopted 11/10/09, taken 11/02/11 :'( You deserved so much more.
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Offline Pinball

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2010, 10:05:46 AM »
Reply from Farmers Choice about the content of their free-range pet mince (£1 a kilo  :wow:) I am considering buying this and adding my own offal, which obviously isn't as much trouble to prepare as mincing bone!
http://www.farmerschoice.co.uk/product.php?product_id=375

"Hello and thank you for your email.

The Pet Mince is made up of Pork Trimmings and Chicken Trimmings and the soft bone of the chicken only.  There is no offal or other meat types included.

With regards the Direct Debit the least you can pay is £10 amonth - the least you can order at anyone time is £30's worth.  So for a £30 order and paying £10 a month - it would take 3 monthly payments to 'balance the books'.

Payments can be set at any level from £10 a month and orders placed as an when required bearing in mind that we extend 'credit' to 3 x times the value of your monthly payments.

Another example pay £25 a month and place £50 orders every 2 months or £75 orders every 3 months.

You can Pay As You Go by card however there is a £7.50 delivery charge for orders under £75 in value.

I look forward to hearing from you.  With kind regards Nicola"


If you want to use this product, then you need to email them again to see how much bone they are putting in. It should be around 10%. Any less and your cat doesn't get enough calcium, loads more and you run the risk of your cats getting constipation.

Also, you will need to add in not only offal (5% liver, and 5% other offal such as kidney, lung, spleen etc) but also heart. The food doesn't currently contain any, so you need to add about 10-15% of heart.

Also, because it is minced, you may want to consider some additional taurine product.

Overall, though it may be cheap I think this is not a great product for cats. You are better off looking at DAF minces, which to my knowledge contain the right ratios just no heart and they are still affordable.

Offline Fire Fox

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2010, 20:28:04 PM »
Reply from Farmers Choice about the content of their free-range pet mince (£1 a kilo  :wow:) I am considering buying this and adding my own offal, which obviously isn't as much trouble to prepare as mincing bone!
http://www.farmerschoice.co.uk/product.php?product_id=375

"Hello and thank you for your email.

The Pet Mince is made up of Pork Trimmings and Chicken Trimmings and the soft bone of the chicken only.  There is no offal or other meat types included.

With regards the Direct Debit the least you can pay is £10 amonth - the least you can order at anyone time is £30's worth.  So for a £30 order and paying £10 a month - it would take 3 monthly payments to 'balance the books'.

Payments can be set at any level from £10 a month and orders placed as an when required bearing in mind that we extend 'credit' to 3 x times the value of your monthly payments.

Another example pay £25 a month and place £50 orders every 2 months or £75 orders every 3 months.

You can Pay As You Go by card however there is a £7.50 delivery charge for orders under £75 in value.

I look forward to hearing from you.  With kind regards Nicola"
:'( My beautiful Noah rescued 13/02/09, adopted 11/10/09, taken 11/02/11 :'( You deserved so much more.
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Offline DolceNGabanna

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2010, 17:28:58 PM »
Thanks for the resources!

I bought some chicken wings. Gabanna devoured them. Dolce is more timid but still licks them and is starting to like them as well.

I feel better knowing they are eating things more suitable for them ! I will keep exploring.

But it is priceless to see them all excited about their food !

Offline paddypaws

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2010, 22:27:16 PM »
I had limited success with raw feeding until I bought a meat grinder
http://direct.tesco.com/search/default.aspx?search=kenwood+meat+grinder&confirm.x=56&confirm.y=12
It handles chicken wings and thighs easily and now I know that each meal is balanced. I am still offering boney chunks of meat for the dental benefit.

I have found a lot of useful information on Pet Forums
http://www.petforums.co.uk/cat-health-nutrition/111455-thinking-about-raw-feeding-basic-guide.html

Offline DolceNGabanna

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2010, 00:04:06 AM »
Thanks for your post! very informative.

So far:

Neither one of the cats likes egg.

I cooked fish and gave one to them. They were interested but picky, I found out chunks were too big, when I cut them down a little bit Gabanna was all over it. Gabanna eats anything- well, besides egg!
Dolce is more special.

A few minutes later the food plate was empty, they loved fish! its priceless to see them so excited.

I still find myself queasy in the supermarket meat section.


Offline Fire Fox

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2010, 00:59:31 AM »
I am semi-vegetarian too, D&G, tho not squeamish about meat only offal! :doh: Part of my decision to (partially) raw feed was cost, parrt health and partly the environmental impact of pouches.

If you can get a butcher to chop the offal you can then just freeze chunks on a baking sheet - in the UK we can buy it chopped/ sliced in supermarkets. I purchase the chicken thighs/ drumsticks already jointed and individually frozen as that is cheaper than fresh. I then weigh out enough meat and offal for two meals into a plastic container, defrost and serve - I don't find the meat or offal gross when it is still frozen. Noah can handle a chicken wing or half a drumstick, some kittens can demolish a whole wing!  :wow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v9aCoT_Hxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA2-HhToJ_8

I am a bit vague on this but cats need saturated fat (from meat) and both raw fish and raw eggs may block absorption of vitamins so should be limited. All the meat I feed Noah is fit for human consumption but I avoid ham, bacon and smoked fish as they are quite high in salt (Noah sometimes helps himself tho!). Ham can be useful for getting medication down tho.  :sneaky:
:'( My beautiful Noah rescued 13/02/09, adopted 11/10/09, taken 11/02/11 :'( You deserved so much more.
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Offline DolceNGabanna

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2010, 17:37:19 PM »
Hello...

I am more or less vegetarian and only eat fish.

Can I give my cats raw fish ? does the type of fish matter ? I am not that queasy about fish... and I would also like to stop generating so much trash with the wet food whiskas pouches.

My bf has given them ham for humans and they love it but I am not sure that is ok ? is meat intended for humans ok for the cats?

So far i give them royal canine dry food,  diamond dry food and whiskas wet pouches. Around here they are the only wet foods available.

Thanks :)

 

Offline Fire Fox

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2010, 23:34:04 PM »
 :Luv: Aaaawwww it's lovely to see them tucking in to a more natural diet, so pleased it's an easy transition to raw. Noah begs like a dog when I an prepping the food for freezing! I clearly remember him shooting across the room when I slit open the first pack of chicken wings. As you can see a couple of the regulars are old hands with raw feeding, but I am still learning so anything you post will be of use to me or a future Purrs member I am sure. Feel free to add photos, they never go amiss! :hug:

If it is a true allergy I believe it can take time for all the old food to leave his body and the immune system to calm down; then of course you might still need a course of probiotics as Helen suggested. Sounds very promising that you are already down to a daily poop tho!

« Last Edit: July 13, 2010, 23:36:11 PM by Fire Fox »
:'( My beautiful Noah rescued 13/02/09, adopted 11/10/09, taken 11/02/11 :'( You deserved so much more.
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Offline Mitchell

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2010, 20:44:12 PM »
Thanks Fire Fox! The new diet is going down a treat! He is loving it!  ;D  No sign of solid poo yet but he is only going once a day which in my book is an improvement! He is not on the raw totally yet as I'm still trying to get to grips with how much I should freeze and then defrost in one go...think I need to take more out of the freezer at a time. Still learning!  :-: At least he is eating it so it's definately a thumbs up! He is walking on the back of my chair as I type! Thanks for all your help and advice... and thanks to Noah for his input!  :hug:

Offline Fire Fox

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 16:15:59 PM »
Lamb kidneys and pig heart will be fine, chicken hearts are not easy to source. IMO the important when you start out raw feeding is availability and being able to trust the freshness/ quality. Feeding raw does seem a bit gross when you start; I didn't much like my hands smelling of men's lavatories when I chopped the kidneys! Can't say it smells any worse than many commercial cat foods tho, and you get used to prepping very quickly or at least forget as soon as you see your furbaby relish bone-in meat just as nature intended. :Luv2:

Let us know how you get on with the new diet, :crossed: that you can get stop of the steroids. I don't think it will matter if you don't get the perfect ratios from day one; if the raw diet stop the problems in the gut your boy will be absorbing more nutrients from his food than before anyway. The important thing is finding the right diet long term and you are obviously willing to go the extra mile to achieve that. :hug:

Noah has just typed the following, which translated I am sure must be a message of feline solidarity
ui888888op09i
:'( My beautiful Noah rescued 13/02/09, adopted 11/10/09, taken 11/02/11 :'( You deserved so much more.
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Offline Gillian Harvey

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2010, 18:37:10 PM »
I wouldnt have thought you needed egg into the mix - I think the Felini has all you need to make the muscle meat a complete meal, and you won't need bones if you are using the felini supplement as it contains a source of calcium I believe. Bones could be fed on the days you don't use the felini though.

Offline Mitchell

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2010, 14:39:24 PM »
Thankyou all so much for your input! My Zooplus order finally came with the Felini so I am ready to prepare the first raw meal. I went to Morrisons this morning for the ingredients. I got chicken drumsticks, some diced lamb, lambs kidneys and pigs heart! I'm hoping I got the right stuff! They were the only hearts they had and they weren't expensive so I took the risk. I hope someone on here will tell me if i got the right ones! It all looks rather bloody but here goes! LOL  :sick: I'm hoping they like it!  :scared:

PS...do I mix the raw egg white or white and yolk of the egg to the mixture?

Offline Fire Fox

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2010, 17:01:12 PM »
I can vouch for probiotic supplements working for my human IBS clients but they won't be of benefit if the problem is food allergy. In human studies fish oils have been shown to reduce inflammation in the bowel but cats do also need saturated fats in their diet unlike humans.

Noah came to me on Felix wet and JWB kibble producing three stinkers a day.  :sick: I now partially raw feed alongside various high meat/ grain free commercial foods (Bozita, Orijen, Feline Fayre, P@H Purely) and we are down to one poop a day which only stinks when he has tuna cat food. He started out with jointed chicken wings and has graduated to thighs or drumsticks which he spends ages eating. If I cut the bones in half using poultry shears the entire wing and all but the ball end of a drumstick gets polished off.  ;D

Noah is a large cat (6.5kg) so has 200g of raw - a typical day would be one chicken drumstick or thigh (plus half a wing if small), one chicken heart, similar amount of pork kidney (out of liver at the mo). Sometimes he gets bone in rabbit chunks or pork tongue or a raw free range egg mixed with prebiotic/ vitamin cat milk. I'd be more careful about ratios if I was only raw feeding and would probably make up an offal mix (inc. heart) and freeze in ice cube trays to serve alongside a piece of bone in meat. Frozen Value chicken portions are cheaper than any other bone in meat, more hygienic than mince, contain more taurine than breast and easy to prep and serve.
:'( My beautiful Noah rescued 13/02/09, adopted 11/10/09, taken 11/02/11 :'( You deserved so much more.
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Offline Gillian Harvey

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2010, 17:16:36 PM »
Maybe I will give it another go when I start my animal nutrition unit next term.

Edit - I just saw somewhere that said 10% total offal, of which 5% should be liver.

Yep, try it!  :) as with the toxic poo thread - raw definitely helps in that department  ;)

Offline Pinball

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2010, 05:39:30 AM »
Offal (kidney, lung, sweetbread, spleen) should be about 10% of which 5% liver. About 10% should be bone and about 80% should be muscle meat (including tongue, tripe, intestines, gizzards) of which up to 15% heart. Then you can also add up to 5% vegetables depending on your persuasion. I use raw grated carrot, courgette, sesame seeds or psyllium husks - not the whole 5% and not every day.

Mitchell, you don't need to worry about the 10% bone with Felini. I don't think you need to add liver either but check out the leaflet that comes with it. Felini and other complete supplements are a great first way into raw feeding with a peace of mind that your cat will get all that he/she needs. Once you are more confident it is easy to make the mix of supplements yourself or to substitute ground eggshells for bones if you feel uneasy about feeding bones or your cats don't like chewing them.

I also add about 1g of salmon oil to 1kg of meat (for omega 3) and a little salmon (for Vit D) about 10g per 1kg.

A couple of tips. If you can, get leg meat or shoulder meat - these tend to be darker than the breast meat, which means that they contain more taurine. So, for example, get more chicken thighs or drumsticks than chicken breasts.

Don't forget to feed the skin or fat of the meat. A lot of people initially make the mistake of buying lean meat or skinless chicken. Cats need fat. Lambs breast is a great source of fat and if I use lean meat, such as rabbit, then I add some lamb breast in bump up the fat content. Also try to get bloody meats - cats need the salt and iron.

Don't get supermarket minces - you don't know when they have been minced. Processing of all kinds (but cooking and mincing in particular) destroys taurine in meat , for example. Minced meat also tends to be more expensive or of the leaner kind.

Buying organic meat/free-range/additive free meat for your pets is expensive but check out Craigs Farm (be warned though - their offal is twice or three times more expensive than 'normal' offal). They do a great range of such meats including an impressive array of offal. They will get you chicken hearts as a special order.

Depending on where you live you might have a halal butcher. Many will be able to get your chicken hearts (these tend to be very allusive) and a lot stock goat meat.

The hardest part is sourcing your ingredients. Since you have Morrisons near you you will easily get kidney, liver, heart, tongue as well as lamb, chicken and beef meats. Ideally you should increase your range of offal to also include the likes of lung (a butcher is your best choice - they get plucks, which are the heart, liver and lung of an animal) and spleen if you can find it (spleen is full of iron).

And then, you can have a go at feeding whole prey as a treat - frozen day old chicks or frozen mice (from reptile shops) can be a real hit. It is not for everyone though  :shy:

Hope that helps!

Offline Mark

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2010, 23:39:15 PM »
I'm sure I read somewhere that the total offal shouldn't exceed 10% as the excess vitamin A can cause fatty liver disese. I can barely feed my lot cooked meat and there is no interest in raw - Willow used to love raw mince but the other look at me in disgust. Also, I only buy free range/organic meat so it would be hard to find all the things I need.

Maybe I will give it another go when I start my animal nutrition unit next term.

Edit - I just saw somewhere that said 10% total offal, of which 5% should be liver.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 23:45:25 PM by Mark »
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Offline Mitchell

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2010, 22:42:15 PM »
Thanks so much for all your replies! I needed the morale support! I'm convinced that this is the right direction to go in and as soon as the Zooplus order arrives with the Felini I will introduce the raw food slowly but surely! Fingers crossed!  :thanks:

Offline Gillian Harvey

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 22:31:08 PM »
IOur boy has had terrible trouble with his stomach, e.g. runny bum, and he's on steroids at the moment for IBD.

Raw should certainly help with that, defintely a good idea to get him off steroids.

I've used Darlings too and can recommend their minces. I make my own too with a simple recipe of raw muscle meat (including some heart) - so that would be turkey, beef, or chicken - plus liver and kidney - and chicken wings for the bone content (I grind the bones as most of my lot don't have many teeth left sadly  :(  ) -  although some will manage the wings whole and they all manage chunks of meat.

Offline Pinball

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2010, 21:40:27 PM »
Darlings - that is a really good point. They do an introductory offer of 3kg of minces for £10 including delivery. They haven't updated their website, so you need to email Vicky to let her know that you are interested in cat minces. They do rabbit now (with lamb) and chicken wings from free range chickens.

Since you have the felini complete now I would see how you get on with that. Chunks of meat are much better for their teeth than minces - at least they need to chew some, minces just get scoffed.

If you are interested in minces, then also check out raw to go. They are in Wales but deliver. Their minces are coarser than Darlings'. They don't include heart so would you need to add heart or taurine powder.

Regarding IBD, check out slipper elm. I had a cat with IBD, slippery elm worked wonders. And raw did too.

Oh, cheapest place for rabbit is woldsway. They do rabbit for pets too.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2010, 21:48:59 PM by Pinball »

Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2010, 21:38:56 PM »
Our boy has had terrible trouble with his stomach, e.g. runny bum, and he's on steroids at the moment for IBD. We tried everything and it's the only thing that has worked so far. But! I heard a raw diet might help that.

As I said I know nothing about raw feeding but last year one of my cats (otherwise fit and healthy) had a bout of prolonged diarrhoea. He had antibiotics and a faecal test which all came back negative. They've eaten the same foods (Bozita wet and PAH dry) since kittens so I knew there was no issue with the food.

Anyway, the vet was stumped and one of them (not my normal vet) suggested that he had suddenly become allergic to the food he had eaten for 1 1/2 years!. It was suggested (on here) to try a probiotic - Lacto-B powder. I ordered some online and blow me down it worked, his runny bum that he had for over a month suddenly cleared up. I know others have had great success with it too.

Definitely worth looking into, it's relatively inexpensive, odourless/tasteless so just sprinkled onto wet food.

http://www.vetuk.co.uk/digestive-supplements-prebiotic-probiotic-products-c-5_172/lacto-b-powder-75g-pot-p-1657

Offline cazzer

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2010, 21:33:15 PM »
You can always buy ready prepared raw minces from somewhere like Darlings, which is what I do.      There is a minimum order of 20kg though.       Their website doesn't show the cat food but they do chicken, lamb and beef.     Heard that they are going to do rabbit mince and chicken wings as well.      There food is organic and roughly £3.90 per kilo.     I then buy other bits like chicken thighs and rabbit chunks from supermarket.     {I have only found rabbit in Waitrose, my local Tesco/Morrisons don't sell it
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Offline Mitchell

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2010, 21:25:34 PM »
Thanks for the welcome!  ;D
I have two cats, both around two/three years old (We rescued them a year ago so we're not entirely sure!) A boy and a girl. Our boy has had terrible trouble with his stomach, e.g. runny bum, and he's on steroids at the moment for IBD. We tried everything and it's the only thing that has worked so far. But! I heard a raw diet might help that. Yes, they have almost a full mouth of teeth, they had some denistry work at the rescue place before we picked them up but they've got most of them left, plenty to chew on!

I have bought chicken breast and cut it up into very small chunks just to see if they would eat it and they did! I put it in their dish with their Bozita and to my delight they ate most of it! So I'm daring a step further ... I go to Morrisons often so I'm glad you said about getting the stuff from there. That would be easier. I'm looking forward to trying them on some lamb and rabbit like you suggested. Do they sell rabbit in Morrisons or do you get it from elsewhere?

I'd love it if I could get him off the steroids and he could have a nice glossy coat like our girl cat.  :Luv:

Offline Pinball

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 20:53:01 PM »
Hello, welcome to the exciting world of raw feeding!

You don't need bones for felini complete. Just meat of which about 15% heart (so don't use too much). Then you need to add offal, ie. kidney, and some liver, I believe. It comes with instructions.

Check out Morrisons - they are the only supermarket to stock a wide range of offal (kidney and liver). They also do heart. And often have really discounted meat at the end of the day. I get a lot of my bargains from there.

Re bones I would give some small boned animals twice a week to get them used to chewing. See whether you can get quail, poussin or rabbit ribs. Or chicken necks. These all have small enough bones for a cat to cope with. Once they are used to chewing then there are chicken wings. All great to keep teeth shipshape.

How old is your cat? If he/she still has teeth then I wouldn't bother with grinding, just chop into chunks and let him/her chew. Is this the first foray into raw or has your cat eaten some before? If not, then you will need to see what meat he/she likes. Mine love lamb, venison and rabbit.

Eggs should be fed raw - all the ingredients in raw food should be fed raw. Some recipes ask for liver as well as eggs. I personally find that bit dodgy as both contain Vit A and you don't want to overfeed on Vit A as it doesn't get secreted out.

Ooh, you will have so much fun!

Offline Tiggy's Mum

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Re: Help with raw diet please
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 20:48:45 PM »
 :welcome: to Purrs Mitchell

I've never raw fed myself (my cats looked suspiciously at the raw chicken wing I presented them with and refused to even sniff it!) but we have a fair few raw feeders who really know their stuff so hopefully they'll be along shortly  :)

Offline Mitchell

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Help with raw diet please
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 20:37:52 PM »
Hi there, thanks in advance for any help..
I'm thinking of starting to feed my two cats on a raw diet and need some advice. I've found various recipes on the internet, and have ordered a supplement from Zooplus (Felini Complete), but there are a couple of things I'm not sure of.

I was going to feed them on raw chicken and heart, do I just add the supplement to that because I've read that you can add bone to it. What sort of bone, and do I just grind it in with the meat? Where do you all buy your meat, just the local supermarket? Also what sort of grinder do I need, I've seen sausage maker/grinders on the net, but do they grind the bone, none seem to say!

Also, some recipes add eggs, is that neccesary, and do I need to part cook anything?

It's all a bit overwhelming, but I want to do right by my cats!
Thanks!  :Crazy:

 


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