Milly developing arthritis...x-rays taken, definitely arthritis/spondylosis

[Mark]

From what I can tell, it is odourless & tasteless. I just sprinkle a capsule on something I know she will eat all of and mix it in - Usually tinned red salmon or tuna steak in springwater. She savours it but it is always gone by the morning  - The corta-vet is £26 for 60 capsules from VetUK, which isn't bad, considering a standard one costs at least that much from  a vet. It says on the bottle 'For sale by vets only' - the blurb on their website says it is double the strength of the standard for less than 1/2 the price. Still early days to tell if it will help. I know someone posted about it a while ago saying the human version they sell is good.

I think there is some truth in the pain relief thing. For example, I get a lot of lower-back pain with my IBS - If I am in pain, I hold myself awkwardly which can make the pain worse. I have found that one Paracetamol is all it takes to ease the pain most days if I take it before the pain takes hold. If it is bad, I take Paracodal, but it only helps in the short term as it makes my IBS worse the next day.

Anyway, fingers crossed, last night and today I hav been almost pain-free for the first time in months - and without meds  (not holding breath though  )

[fluffybunny]

That's really interesting Mark, thanks!  My vet also said there is a body of literature which shows that long term arthritic pain makes arthritis worse more quickly than if pain relief is given. 

How are you finding the corta-vet, does it seem to be palatable and how is it given?  I've moved onto synoquin as cosequin have stopped making the double strength version, but it obviously smells/tastes different and Milly won't touch it  so now I need to find something else!

She has peaked a little further again in the past few days; yesterday hubby and I spent some time in the afternoon playing 'fetch' with her and a ball  It's nice to see her active and perky again 

[Mark]

Great news  - fingers crossed, you can tail it off. it's a difficult one as although you want to give the minimum effective dose, you don't want to go too far. My mum thinks pain relief should be treated as a preventative - ie she said she know when her osteoartritis is going to give her a bad day and she think the secret is to "nip it in the bud" before the pain takes hold. She thinks it is nbetter than trying to get rid of a pain that is already there.

I am still in two minds with Alice. Early days as she has only been on it for under a week, but I have changed her Glucosamine over to something called Corta-vet. It is double the strength of cortaflex. It doesn't have glucosamine or chondroitin in, but the "active isolates" - which it claims work better to where they are needed.

[fluffybunny]

Milly is going from strength to strength.  She even just jumped up onto the work surface so she could sit on the kitchen windowsill - something she hasn't done for about 2 years!  She is still on 'full time' metacam as the vet wanted to give it a good 6-8 weeks to get her stable, she is going back next month to have a blood test to check kidneys/liver etc and to start off reducing the dosage to see if we can keep her stable on a lower amount.  All in all, while it's not ideal to have her on metacam, it's making a huge difference to her quality of life 

[Tiggy's Mum]

Great news 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

So pleased that Milly is doing so well..............its a miricle that metacam 

Yes it sort of makes the insurance worthwhile the cos when you actually make a claim lol.

However I am sure all of us would be gratewful just toi see our cats without any problems.

[fluffybunny]

Well Milly has been for a check up today and the vet is really pleased with how she is doing    She says that she can tell that Milly is significantly more comfortable, she is also eating a lot better and has put on some weight - so it seems that the painkillers are working very well for her and she has obviously previously been in discomfort for some time 

So we are carrying on with the daily metacam for another few weeks and are then going to review and see if we can reduce the dosage - but she wants to give it a bit longer having whacked the glucosamine back up to the initial loading dose first. 

I also submitted my first ever insurance claim today, feels good doesn't it 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I asked my vet about this because I thought it crazy and he said it is and they are just trying to make peeps spend more money and they all last a long time wikthout a problem.

You must shake em well before each use though.

They do a biogger bottle than the 15ml too and I have a 30ml one.

[Mark]

Actually just looked on NOAH, it says the shelf life after opening is 14 days for the 3ml bottle and 6 months for the 15ml bottle.  I wonder if they have different preservatives?

That is odd 

I thought is was 6 months

If she goes on it permanently, I don't want to have to go to the vet every 2 weeks for it so I will get a big one. I'm curious now - I just wonder if it is because the 3ml bottles are designed for short-term use and it is to try to get people to discard it?

I will ask the vet the next time I speak to him.

[Janeyk]

I let a drop fall on the top of Byron's food and I watch that she eats where it's fallen - if not I fork it towards her.

I hope it helps Alice 

[fluffybunny]

OOh Mark I hadn't noticed that - my dog version (Meloxicam) which I have been using for one of my bunnies is good for 6 months after opening.

Actually just looked on NOAH, it says the shelf life after opening is 14 days for the 3ml bottle and 6 months for the 15ml bottle.  I wonder if they have different preservatives?

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Boehringer_Ingelheim_Limited/Metacam_0_5_ACY-nbsp_ADs-mg_ml_Oral_Suspension_for_Cats/-40681.html

[Mark]

I have seen others on a wire rack thing but it is really ugly looking  - also another where a frame fits on the wall - nice but ridiculously expensive for what they are.

Those are dog ones but 'small dog'

I gave Alice one drop of Metacam. I didn't know how to give it to her. I put one drop on a plate but she wasn't interested. I rubbed some treats in it but she wouldn't eat them. I got rid of it and put another drop on my finger and rubbed it on her mouth. She licked her lips. Luckily, straight afterwards, she had some biscuits and them a drink of water. She went to her bed and fell asleep and is still there. I'm hoping she is less stiff later. I was surprised that the bottle is only good for 14 days after opening - I'm sure it used to be longer 

[Janeyk]

That bowl looks ideal for my two.  I have my two's dishes on a make do elevation  I did order a nice dog one but it was huge 

[Mark]

At the moment, Clapton's favourite drinking dish (he still has an aversion to his regular one - I think he associates it with pain) is a saucer on a box of catfood - not very aesthetically pleasing really 

[fluffybunny]

Thanks Teresa!  Yes my old boy Sooty lasted until nearly 20 having had steroids continually for about the last 4 years of his life too! 

Mark - thanks for the link...how times have moved on!  When Sooty needed his bowl raised up, I simply put it on top of an upturned colander 

[Teresa Pawcats]

Buster had severe spondylosis of the spine and for almost 10 years had a monthly steroid jab to give him relief, yes that has dangers too but was preferable to a life of pain, metacam wasnt available back then. Buster eventually died aged 22 and a half years of cancer, so we know we did right in providing him with medication to ease the condition.
Cant understand what sort of people think a longer life full of pain is preferable.
Good Luck and never feel guilty about providing pain relief.

 

[Mark]

I agree. I have had 2 more similar emails. My vet is well aware of the issues with it but is also aware that you can't leave a cat in agony. One of the emails listed safer pain relief such as Rimadyl. I'm sure the vets would use safer pain relief if they thought it was effective?

Anyway, something else you might be interested in - I ordered a blue one of these for clapton as apparently, leaning over a bowl can make them nauseous. I ordered pink one for Alice as well 

I got mine from petplanet - they are the same price as eBay with the postage included.

ETA ......the link  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dogit-Dog-Bowl-Elevated-Feeding-Dish-Small-Pink-300ml-/170514227634?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Cats&hash=item27b370a1b2

[fluffybunny]

Yes I agree.  If there's a growing band of people who suggest that it "shouldn't" be used, then what's the alternative?  Leave her in pain for another 5-10 years?  It's clear from just the past couple of days that she is significantly happier and more comfortable, so I'd prefer to risk it damaging her kidneys at some point and have her comfortable in the meantime, rather than keep her in pain just in case something happens to her kidneys in the future.  My vet is well aware of the risk to kidneys which is why she had a blood test the other day to check she was ok to go on it and will have regular blood tests to monitor in the future.  I'm not thrilled with the situation but it's a bit of a hobson's choice really isn't it?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Mark I think its all down to the health of each individual cat and the owners attitude to whether their cat should live in pain with a slow miserable life. Also the amount of metacam they were using.

As we know all vets do not agree on loads of stuff.

All I know that at 17 yrs old Ducha is so much happier and active than he was and I believe like my vet that metacam is advantageous for him, versus the risks which my vet says are very small on such a low dose.

[Mark]

I posted a question on the CRF user group this morning and got a long email from someone saying I shouldn't let my vet use it at all on Clapton and how many cats it has sent into renal failure, killed etc etc.

[cheekycj]

My boy Joey has been on this for a number of weeks now....it has helped him out out pain but he does sometimes suffer from a upset tummy 

My vet said just dnt give him any for one day then back on it.  I give him it early evening when it get home from work, he then goes out for a wander (only for afew hrs as should be on house arest).

Mark just give Alice a little bit....ease her pain 

[Mark]

I'm glad it's helping her and also that a small dose is enough 

I am seriously tempted to give Alice a try on this. Should I give her one drop out of the bottle?

I obviously want to give her the minimum efficacious dose.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Yeah I've had a rabbit on it long term before as well - easiest medicine to give ever!  My little Santa bunny used to tug at the syringe in a tantrum when it was all gone 

Love that about your bunny 

Ducha is hovering over me and was asleep earlier when I went to give him his honey 

[fluffybunny]

Yeah I've had a rabbit on it long term before as well - easiest medicine to give ever!  My little Santa bunny used to tug at the syringe in a tantrum when it was all gone 

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

That sounds really good and long may it continue 

It has quite a distinct smell which brings Ducha hovering, he loves his honey 

[fluffybunny]

Thanks everyone, that's encouraging.

Well she's only had one dose so far and is certainly feeling much better.  This morning she ran down the stairs with all four legs working independently, something she hasn't done for a long while.  She normally puts her front feet down normally then sort of jumps with her back legs and lands with her back feet together.  It's obviously a coping mechanism she's developed over time to minimise the discomfort, poor thing.

My only concern now is that she will start doing daft things like trying to climb trees again 

I do agree that even if it does shorten her life, it's got to be better than having a long life in pain, hasn't it.

Thanks xx

[Desley (booktigger)]

Fingers crossed with her - if the dose doesn't seem to be doing much, our locum vet said that splitting the dose sometimes works (although hard to work out on the syringe), and it does seem to work with Zi. I give it to her in the evening when on one dose purely cos she struggles and I'm not always that awake in the morning. If you can hide it in her food, that would be easier, some cats will take it like that, Sam did (well, his was in his Primula, he would do anythign for that ,no matter how much medication was in it). Cat tuna is very good for hiding it in.

[Janeyk]

Ducha has just high jumped onto the sofa amd then onto the top of tha back and he is a different cat to how he has been for the last 4 years. so much more active and rushing about and jumping on things.

Same with my Byron, she's now 26 so not rushing about! but she's certainly better than she's been for a long while in every way. 

I give it to her in the afternoon on her food, she has just 1 drop of Cat Metacam.  I give her it in the afternoon as she seemed worse as the day wore on and hopefully she now has both part of day and night more comfortable.

Best of luck with Milly.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

I have a 3 legged cat called Ducha whomis 17 next week and he was put on metacam about 6 weeks or so ago cos he hurt his one back leg.

It comes with a special syringe to measure the dose as advised by your vet after he has weighed your cat.

Ducha had an injection of it and then was on the 2 line on the syringe for 7 days, over which he became so much more acdtive. I spoke to the vet about this because felt he had maybe been in pain for a long time. although their were no real signs of this.

The vet advised to halve the dose and keep him on it for the rest of his life because he said that doseage this small was gonna do little damage.

He also believed that cats should not have to live in pain and if it meant a shorter life it was better for them to be pain free.

He saide the cat metacam iso good that low doses work well and can be taken for a lomng time with no damage.

Ducha has just high jumped onto the sofa amd then onto the top of tha back and he is a different cat to how he has been for the last 4 years. so much more active and rushing about and jumping on things.

I feel so bad that I didnt know he wasa in pain before.

I give Ducha his meatcam on nhis first food but have also given it later cos of him being fast asleep dreaming of chasing mice 

I dont think it matters to be honest as long as its evenly spaced out and Ducha goes straight to the bit of food with it in LOL.........I call it his honey 

[fluffybunny]

Well it's definitely arthritis/spondylosis    Bloods are all ok so that's something I guess.  She has spondylosis along her spine as well as changes in her hips, elbows and right shoulder    So we are going to have to start 'experimenting' with metacam to try and get her comfortable as quality has to be more important than quantity.  My vet also said that it's well documented that arthritis progresses more quickly in animals who don't receive adequate pain relief, so believes that even though it is likely to shorten her life, it is more important for her comfort to ensure that she isn't in pain. 

Do people find it's better to give metacam in the morning or evening, or doesn't it seem to matter?

[Janeyk]

It's the cat Metacam, I'm thinking that over time her body may need more so I'm very careful in fact initially I gave her it on alternate days because I'm not one for taking meds unless really necessary but it didn't help the same so she has 1 drop per day as my vet suggested and is doing really well on that touch wood.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Jane - is that the cat Metacam or dog? the cat Metacam is 3 drops per kilo of weight, so am surprised one drop is making a difference.

I would try heat beds and other glucosamine products first - our locum vet told me it didn't matter if I gave Zi a 1kg or 3kg dose, it doesnt' make any difference if it is going to affect their kidneys (she developed CRF after being put on daily Metacam, but we cant' get her back off it). It might be worth asking about Onsior, it is supposed to be kinder to the kidneys than Metacam, it is only licenced for 6 days, but if you sign a disclaimer, you can use it on a 6 day on, 6 day off basis (my vet rang the manufacturers when we tried it on Zi). If she is like Zi and wont be pilled, and she ends up on Metacam, please do get regular (minimum 6 monthly) bloods to check her kidneys, and if she starts drinking extra water, vets asap (Zi did within days of being on Metacam, luckily Renal food has drastically reduced her kidney levels) - it can also cause stomach issues, so watch her poos as well, any blood is an immediate call to the vets.

[fluffybunny]

Thanks for your help, both.

Mark - thanks for the link, those beds look really interesting, I can imagine Milly would love that especially in winter when we're at work and the heating is off or on low.  I'll definitely look into one of those.

Janey - interesting about use of lower than 'recommended' metacam dose; once we know more on Tuesday I'll chat to her about that.  As she's still only 11 and could potentially need it for a long time I would rather start low and work up to a dose that helps rather than dive in at the 'normal' dose.  But then equally as Mark says, if they need pain relief, I can't/won't deny her that so I guess it's all a carefully tuned balancing act.

I'll let you know how we get on after Tuesday!       

[Mark]

Thanks 

I will keep an eye on her and maybe give it a go. I said to Craig last week that it would be interesting to see if Alice changed on it. She sometimes, like now, lies down on the rug or even on the hard floor. It could be her just being a cat, but I sometimes wonder if it is because she is uncomfortable.

[Janeyk]

It is Mark just 1 drop.   At the time the vet said Schui was allowed 2 drops and Byron 1 because she was smaller, she never seemed too bad though so you could count on 1 hand the times I gave her it plus she was sick  a few times so I thought it didn't suit her but she used to have a senstiive tummy (although seems fine now for some reason).   Anyhow she seemed to be losing her balance the other month and initially I thought she had an ear problem until I watched her closely and could see she wasn't able to put weight on her leg.  So I started her on the Metacam just to see and she's not struggled to walk since, she never stops eating and she's doing all the things she's not done for a long time so she gets 1 drop on top of her food in the afternoon 

[Mark]

Is that one drop from the bottle Jane?

Just wondering how that compares to a full dose. I would be willing to try to see if it could help Alice without upsetting her stomach. I have an unopened bottle in case Clapton needs it.

I agree it isn't fair to deny them pain relief.

[Janeyk]

Poor Milly,  but glad she's had some relief from the injection.  Best of luck for Tuesday with the X-Rays     

I've recently put Byron on just 1 drop of Metacam a day and it's made a huge difference not only with her joints but also her appetite so I'm assuming she's been feeling pretty off it too.  The vet said she could have this over a year ago but I've been reluctant to give her it.   However, she was really dodgy on her legs a month ago so I decided to see how she was on it and the improvement since means she's staying on it now.  She's so old anyway I'd rather she was pain free and happy.

[Mark]

I bought Alice an Infra-red bed for her stiff joints. I has helped a fair bit but not sure if it is enough. Although her kidneys are fine, the vet is against putting her on Metacam because she has gastro-intestinal problems. The bed seems to have eased those a fair bit as well. (runny poo with blood in. All kinds of tests done and no sign of disease, just 'sensitive')
http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,32810.0.html

[fluffybunny]

She's in for x-rays on Tuesday so the vet can have a good look at what is going on in there.  My vet is also a bit concerned that her jaw is a bit mobile - this was noted when she had her dental a couple of months back so I'm going to ask that they re-measure the wobble when she's in on Tues to see if it's got worse. 

If she does have arthritis, she's probably going to have to go on metacam (assuming bloods are ok); she's been on cosequin for several months now but is clearly getting to the point where she's in some discomfort.  She is sleeping a lot, sitting in the hottest spots in the sun behind the windows and is walking very stiffly especially up and down the stairs.  Having had a painkilling jab earlier this week she perked up pretty much straight away and started doing daft things like trying to climb trees again     I know it's not ideal, but I feel that quality is more important than quantity - unless anyone can suggest anything else that is likely to help without causing other problems?  Milly is 11, and is insured, thank crunchie!