M & S insurance - oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I think it really is a minefield these days, with more and more people taking out insurance and it being among the most claimed insurance.  It was so easy when I took out insurance for Jaffa 10 years ago.  There were hardly any companies and going with petplan was a no brainer.  Now there are so many, but of course a lot are finding that the great deals they used to entice customers (eg no excess) are just not sustainable and all premiums seem to be going up.  I think that as time goes on we'll see many dropping out of the market and those that stay in it will find that a larger and larger proportion of the cats they insure are getting older (simply because most people stick with the same insurer due to apathy) and that that affects what they can offer.  Petplan are expensive but I do think they maybe have a more realistic view of the situation than some of the newcomers to the market, having been around longer.

Lets just hope other companies don't try to do what M&S/Royal & Sun Alliance are trying to d with their vet nurse phone line

[Team Svartalfheims]

I'm with Halifax and they have been really good.

[hannah (weeny)]

oh.... i really dont like insurance!!!     growing up sucks.  bloomin jasper for being so wnderful that i have to thoroughly research these things!!!!   think i will wait till i go home - my clever mummy can help me     in the mean time i will keep looking for recommendations from you lot   

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Pet Plan is well established but very expensive and you need to look at the wording of the conditions very carefully and also the amount of excess

[hannah (weeny)]

ok, pet plan seems quite good.  would pet value be enough? or should i go for the covered for life?  can we tell i'm not very good at this stuff? 

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

I've had a quick read through of that whole thread that Helen posted a link to, and it seems that a few people are getting the response that in a real emergency they don't actually expect you to ring their helpline.  However, no explanation seems to be forthcoming for why the wording says that you 'must' ring that line. 

Someone has contacted the RCVS and the person she spoke to was appalled - time will tell if any action is taken but I suspect it will take a lot of complaints from vets and the rcvs to make them see sense.

I think anyone who has received a new policy containing these terms should show it to their vet, contact the rcvs themselves, contact both M&S and Royal and Sun Alliance, contact the FSA and generally make a bit stink about it.  I suspect they are relying on customer apathy and only a lot of people making a lot of noise will get them to change the wording. 

Hannah - it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other, imo.  But I think the price hikes lots of people have experienced recently just empahsizes the importance of not getting too carried away with loss leader premiums and looking at the whole policy, which insurer underwrites the policy and how well established the company is.  Despite the high excess for older animals, I'm sticking with petplan.  Not had problems with them so far.  They've always paid up for me no quibbles.

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Well they are all nasty and mean but the best I suspect is AXA who previously underwrote M&S and Sainsburys who are also underwrittne by AXA.

The difference between the two is AXA give life cover and Sainburys give per condition but the best way is to look at boths conditions online and get a quote before deciding.

[hannah (weeny)]

ok - so which insurer is any good please? since m&s are clearly pants and i need to change - who arent a nasty mean company?

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

Helen I would seriously recommend that you speak to your vet about Riley as I do not think he has a pre-existing condition as all tests showed there was no problem and ask the vet to provide you with a letter to that effect.

After doing that I would ring which ever insurance you would like to move to and tell them you were worried and have this letter and if you were to send them a copy would they be happy to take Riley on , as a cat with no pre-existing condition and confirm that in writing to you.

You have nothing to lose but everything to gain and me personally would not even tell any insurance company if I had a letter from the vet.

I think M&S have been extremely bad and are just getting worse, they have been bitten hard by trying to be too clever and I expect that the whole insurance market is watching them, if they find a way to limit their risks like the clause that has been published, it will spread like wildfire.

So please please, anyone who has recieved this please do as suggested and write to the address given.

[Mark]

As Helen pointed out though, people with cats that have existing conditions are stuck. I think that people who take out policies and renew them should be allowed to keep the terms they started out with.

I have a particular grudge against M&S as they are responsible for my last redundancy - I worked for the company that did most of their instore signage etc and had been doing so since the 1950's - M&S took the account elsewhere. Most of the investment the company had made was to be able to print the very large format stuff they wanted. They had a rule where their suppliers can only have a certain % of their turnover from them which excuses them from any blame when they pull the rug. Unfortunately, the percentage was a lot higher so we went bust overnight.

[Susanne (urbantigers)]

That sounds terrible.  Can they do that?  If you have a sick cat, how can they insist you speak to their vet nurse before you contact a vet?  Not knocking vet nurses, but in the scenario I had with my Magpie (return from work to find him lying paralysed on the floor) there's no way I would want to ring their vet nurse for advice before I rang my own vet - it would be straight onto the out of hours vet.  It was blatantly obvious that he needed to see a vet.  That messing around could cost lives.  And lets face it - the only real advice a nurse could give over the phone in the majority of cases would be to consult a vet!

I would advise anyone with M&S to not only change insurer if they can, but to tell M&S that that is the reason why.

[Rosella moggy]

I remember when M&S was a trusted brand.

Well said Mark. I really am beginning to loathe them. That is an absolutely appalling clause. The last  thing on your mind in an emergency is to have to ring the insurance company.  I really hope they get their knuckles rapped for this.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Might be worth paying someone like Axa for insurance and having 6 weeks overlap to make sure you are covered (not sure if it is as simple as that?)

I think the issue for most of us that will be affected by this is that we have had previous claims with M&S so can't switch insurers as the new insurer won't cover the pre-existing conditions/illnesses.

Have quickly scan read the posts on that link... This post is very interesting, perhaps those who have had renewals with the Royal & Sun Alliance version of M&S (I think from the last few days onwards) would consider doing the same.  I won't be affected until April but am more than likely stuck with them for Riley.

I've now spoken to the Financial Services Authority and explained the situation to them. The man I spoke so said it sounds as if this could be something that they might be interested in (yippee.gif) but of course, he can't give any guarantees.

What we have to do is write in (and we need at least one of us to include a copy of the M&S contract with the relevant wording highlighed with a highlighter pen) so anyone who has a contract with this new wording really needs to write and to send a copy in.

In the letter we write, we have to explain why we think this new clause is unfair, unclear or misleading.

We must explain all the points already covered in this thread and another one is that its difficult to diagnose over the telephone and a VET NURSE is not qualified anyway, to diagnose anything!! We must explain and give examples of what we think might happen if people have to call this number (eg, dog could be dying whilst we're on hold or waiting for a call back or that the person on the helpline (who is unqualified to diagnose) may give us incorrect advice which could put our pet in danger etc etc etc.

The address to write to is:-

Unfair Contract Terms Unit
25 The North Colonnade
Canary Wharf
London
E14 5HS

If they get letters from more than one person, they are more likely to look at things a little more closely so it's important that if you are affected by this new clause (ie, if you have a policy with M&S pet insurance and if you feel that the new clause is wrong/dangerous/whatever) that you write to the FSA.

[Mark]

Might be worth paying someone like Axa for insurance and having 6 weeks overlap to make sure you are covered (not sure if it is as simple as that?)

I remember when M&S was a trusted brand.

[Desley (booktigger)]

Oh dear.

[Tiggy's Mum]

Have some very bad news for those of us stuck with M&S - the crux of the matter is that new policies with M&S will no longer be underwritten by Axa but Royal & Sun Alliance and they have a very, very disturbing clause - see below.

Have copied this from another site....

They have a new out of hours helpline that you can ring for advise from a vet nurse. I have no problem with that in principal, in fact I think a help line is a great idea, except that they state you must contact them before using an out of hours service, or seeking treatment at another vet. So if your pet is suddenly taken seriously ill out of hours, you have to waste time telephoning them first to seek advise from a vet nurse, who is not qualified to decide if your pet requires emergency treatment or not. Further digging (see below) suggests that it could take 10 minutes or more to get to speak to someone on that helpline.

More info here....  Haven't had time to read all 13 pages from the link but it's not good news...

http://www.dogpages.org.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=157421