Topic: Your thoughts on breeding none registered cats (Read 3550 times)

sheryl · « **Reply #31 on:** June 25, 2011, 21:56:25 PM »

I would never consider buying a pedigree without genuine papers and a contract - at the end of the day with no papers the cat is technically a moggie if it is not registered regardless of the breed!

Totally disagree with what your friend is thinking of doing and at the end of the day it is BSB - the fact that breeders register with GCCF, TICCA or FIFE goes some way to protecting the people buying the kittens, the cats and the Breeders themselves

JackSpratt · « **Reply #30 on:** June 25, 2011, 20:18:57 PM »

Having skim read your post, I have to say to me breeding a cat is breeding a cat. And with things as they are currently, I feel it's a little irresponsible. But as I said, I've only skim read so will read your post and the responses properly tomorrow.

Susanne (urbantigers) · « **Reply #29 on:** June 25, 2011, 19:09:29 PM »

To keep this on topic - I would question the motives of someone who was breeding pedigree cats but didint' want to register them and I would never buy a pedigree cat from someone who did not register them. I would advise anyone else looking for a pedigree cat to not buy from someone whose kittens were not registered. Registering kittens with GCCF (or one of the other organisations) is simple enough and it proves that the parents are registered pedigrees of the same breed. If a kitten isn't registered, what proof is there that the kitten is actually a pedigree? I'm not saying that pedigrees are better than moggies, but if I was looking for a pedigree I'd want one from a reputable breeder and I would want to make sure the cat was of the breed stated. If kittens aren't registered I would suspect that the parents weren't on the active register and weren't sold to breed (which may mean not of breeding quality) or that maybe they were crossbreeds. If I wasn't bothered about the cat being a specific pedigree, I'd go to a rescue.

Imo, it's also important to show cats if you are breeding. Although there are exceptions to the rule (some breeders may temporarily retire from showing for various reasons whilst continuing to breed) because I think it's important to keep in touch with the reason for breeding pedigrees and to maintain contacts with other breeders and what is going on within a particular breed. If a breeder isn't doing that and isn't breeding to the standard of points etc. then why are they breeding? Just to have kittens? Not a good enough reason imo.

So no, I don't think it's a good idea for your friend to breed without registering because if she loves balinese, why doesnt she want to do it properly? She should either do it properly or not breed at all. There is really no reason at all to breed registered pedigree cats that are of suitable quality, on the active register and with the support of the original breeders (of the parents) and then to not register the offspring.

cazzer · « **Reply #28 on:** June 25, 2011, 18:55:34 PM »

yes you are right someone on another forum was looking for a foster mum as a selkirk rex queen had died during a c-section

Jiji · « **Reply #27 on:** June 25, 2011, 18:48:59 PM »

I am another one who disagrees for all the reasons previously given. Has your friend really thought this through? There is a lot more than just allowing a cat to get pregnant, is she prepared to invest her time and money into this, is she prepared to pay out a lot of money if the queen needs a cesarean, is she prepared to hand feed up to 8 kittens every 2 hours if needs be, is she prepared for possibility that all the kittens and her cat may die, is she prepared to put in the time and effort to ensure the kittens are socialised properly, is she prepared to be out of pocket by going ahead with this? I could go on..........

Dawn F · « **Reply #26 on:** June 25, 2011, 18:21:25 PM »

Quote from: MarleyMoo on June 25, 2011, 16:06:14 PM

And I don't like handing Bengal's in the vets I'm afraid... As beautiful as they are, the are very fiery characters...

yes, you are quite right! I forgot about that little personality trait! another reason many are abandoned I'm sure

cazzer · « **Reply #25 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:47:40 PM »

sorry I don't agree either. Yes I have bought some pedigrees, but I have homed far more rescue persians most knotted in a terrible state and moggies than bought. But she's not keeping all the kittens is she? so there is a problem! She is only going to keep them if they don't sell! So potentially the kittens are taking homes from those in a rescue!

Also I assume that the cat in question is not on the active register? This could be because the cat is not suitable for breeding!!

bunglycat · « **Reply #24 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:35:22 PM »

Sorry , but you ask on a rescue site -if its ok to start breeding ??
These people deal with hundreds of unwanted cats and kittens in all kinds of states and situations and there are the poor souls who are put to sleep even when healthy just because there is no room for them anywhere at the rescues -not forgetting the resources , time and money they have to find , a lot of them at their own costs if they are not a registered charity .

There is no room for people to start breeding just because they fancy doing it and in my opinion , no room for any more breeders right now anyway of any sort .

Its irresponsible and naive to think she can just keep the ones she cant rehome .
What if she is ill , or or finances change -anything can happen and then you are faced with a house of unwanted cats and kittens.?

Feline Costumier · « **Reply #23 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:34:02 PM »

Who is saying pedigrees are better!? I have moggies, always have. There are breeds of peds I love but have never owned.

The fact remains there are too many cats not enough homes. What would happen if your friend became ill, lost her home, became financially unable to potentially care for 8 or 9 cats she could end up with? Rescues certainly aren't in much of a position to help because of people BREEDING their pets too much!

The there are the many many health risks associated with a pregnancy and remaining unneutered. What about the male? Where is he coming from? Will he be tested for FIV?

Look at what is next to the name of this forum. The majority of people here are involved in supporting cat rescue in some way, the minority have a pedigree of some sort. There are too many companion animals in this country full stop. If your friend wants more cats, tell her to adopt from a rescue and help be a part of the solution instead of fuelling the problem!

bunglycat · « **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:25:21 PM »

Sorry , don''t agree either .
As a slave to 5 pedigree persians -all rescues too .
Too many cats pedigree and non pedigree in resues and also half of these breeders do not vet the homes they go to either properly or at all that is why there are so many in rescues and waiting lists.
All different breeds , have different characteristics and people should be fully aware of them before they go and buy one.
Nearly all mine came with badly knotted coats (except a couple that came from rescues ) , one had been handed in and had the most terribly sore eyes as they had never been cleaned either - same with people getting bengals for instance they cannot handle as i believe they are boisterous .

I have also had moggies in the past too and still do not agree with what your friend proposes to do .
So many potential problems in keeping all the kittens she doesn''t rehome too !

You dont breed on a whim.

lillylau · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:23:22 PM »

Look I only wanted your thoughts, I sit on the fence with this one I can see both sides as many of you cant, I know of bad breeders and I know of good ones, but to be honest in my thoughts I believe a cat is a cat weather a man made type or a moggie, I love all my babies the same, I get the feeling you thing a pedigree is better as to why I dont know but thats your thoughts. I have made a mistake asking you all but I just wanted to talk to some one as yes it does bother me two when I think of all the homeless kittens but if she is keeoping the kittens I cant see the problem.

Kirst · « **Reply #20 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:10:58 PM »

So your friend wants to be a back street breeder - sorry , she gets no support from me. And I own both pedigrees and mogs , a mixture of rescue and bought - and I would never , never have considered buying a pedigree that came with no papers or regulations.

MarleyMoo · « **Reply #19 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:06:14 PM »

And I don't like handing Bengal's in the vets I'm afraid... As beautiful as they are, the are very fiery characters...

Dawn F · « **Reply #18 on:** June 25, 2011, 16:00:24 PM »

sorry but that is a seriously warped argument given the number who end in rescue even pedigree sites have rehoming pages bengals for intance are very eyecatching, I have one myself and happen to know that they are noisy, naughty and prone to stress and upset tummys, I can cope with that not everyone can which is why so many end in rescue if I wanted to get another bengal I would be able to pick or choose from any number of homeless ones, it is not right. what your friend is planning to do is wrong on so many levels and as feline costumier says does she even have breeder rights?

anyway I am bowing out of this one now as I may say something that Tan will object to!

lillylau · « **Reply #17 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:48:30 PM »

And if people did not want these animals they would be no reason to breed them as people only breed them because they think it is a good idea as other people are wanting them. And arnt we all just as bad for wanting and having our very much loved babies, If it was not for the people breeding them they would not be here for us to love. I know that you look into the pedigree but there are people that dont and just want a nice looking cat to love.

Dawn F · « **Reply #16 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:43:43 PM »

very true about huskys, they turn up allthe time now because people buy into the looks and then realise they've made a mistake, same with bengals unfortunately a rare breed not that long ago....

MarleyMoo · « **Reply #15 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:41:56 PM »

It is totally heartbreaking. I would only ever agree to pedigree breeding in any species it it was completely reputable and monitored thoroughly... but's it's not... in the cat or dog or rabbit world. Working in a vets has highlighted this so, so much for me. The over-breeding and amount of caesareans coming through is terrible, and they just keep breeding from these same animals and charging the earth! There is always going to be undesirable people breeding for the money, and this sheds a bad light on many breeders, even if they are highly reputable.
Slightly different species... when we got our Siberian Husky nine years ago, there was rarely one to be found in a rescue centre - we looked! But now, there are tons of them in rescue, as there are with all other canine breeds and many feline breeds. It's just happening to all varieties, and that is just heartbreaking.

lillylau · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:31:48 PM »

Gill why do the pedigree lines need to continue, they are man made surely the same should apply to moggies they were here first they are natural not a man made product. just my thoughts

Dawn F · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:30:36 PM »

Quote from: lillylau on June 25, 2011, 15:20:13 PM

I am sorry to hear about your cat, I was only saying at the end of the day in my mind a cat is a cat. I have moggies and pedigrees and I love them just the same and they act just the same. If she decides she wants to do it I cant change her mind. I was only asking what you thought,

surely you must have known nobody would agree? yes cat is a cat and there are masses without homes so why make more

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:24:26 PM »

My goodness I could never agree with you Liz cos the pedigree lines need to continue, my opinion only.

However I would love over breeding to be stopped and a serious neutering campaign.

But as far as I can see, at the end of the day only education will work and none is being done.

Sadly in the current economic climate more moggie breeding is going to happen, possibly more pedigree and certainly more dumping of cats and kittens.

Its all so very sad

Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:22:15 PM »

Quote from: MarleyMoo on June 25, 2011, 15:19:00 PM

With the current climate of unwanted animals, I'd happily see a complete ban to any breeding until the populations are under control and rescue centres are not inundated. Too many lovely 'cross-breeds' and 'Moggies' out there needing homes, and many kittens and young cats are being PTS because there is just no space... I wish people wouldn't pay for them from either registered or unregistered 'breeders'... I'd also like to see a mass charity 'neutering' scheme, too.
Liz

Here here!

What people also seem to forget is that there are many pedigree cats in rescues now because the situation is just so dire.

lillylau · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:20:13 PM »

I am sorry to hear about your cat, I was only saying at the end of the day in my mind a cat is a cat. I have moggies and pedigrees and I love them just the same and they act just the same. If she decides she wants to do it I cant change her mind. I was only asking what you thought,

MarleyMoo · « **Reply #9 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:19:00 PM »

With the current climate of unwanted animals, I'd happily see a complete ban to any breeding until the populations are under control and rescue centres are not inundated. Too many lovely 'cross-breeds' and 'Moggies' out there needing homes, and many kittens and young cats are being PTS because there is just no space... I wish people wouldn't pay for them from either registered or unregistered 'breeders'... I'd also like to see a mass charity 'neutering' scheme, too.
Liz

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2011, 15:14:13 PM »

Moggies dont need a history thats why they are moggies. Pedigrees do and thats why they are pedigrees.

I have two moggies and now one birman as his brother went to the bridge on 10 May

Both him and I are morning Napoleon badly

Steff - Petsearch Bedford HQ · « **Reply #7 on:** June 25, 2011, 14:54:35 PM »

Given the current situation, I do not agree with breeding of any type.

Your friend saying she would keep any kittens she couldn't sell or that had to come back is a lovely idea but has she really thought of the practicality? What if there's 8 kittens? There is no guarantee they would get on just because they are family...

Then there is the question of the cats status, was she sold as a pet or breeding queen? If as a pet, then your friend will herself be breaking the type of contract she intends to rely on.

I have 5 cats, 4 moggies and 1 bsh x moggie. I don't know any of their heritage and I don't really care to be honest although I know some people want cats with specific characteristics. This more interests me with dogs but not cats so much.

In summary, I am against any type of breeding whilst healthy animals are being put to sleep everyday

lillylau · « **Reply #6 on:** June 25, 2011, 14:27:17 PM »

I know and I understand that about the shelters I understand that we are flooded with cats but if she is wanting to keep the kittens in my mind there is not a problem, I would like to know if any of you have moggies or are you just all for pedigree cats, because I bet if you do have a moggie it does not have 4 generation with it.

Rosella moggy · « **Reply #5 on:** June 25, 2011, 14:15:37 PM »

Sorry Lillylau. Cat rescues are having to close their doors to cats in need.

Whilst that remains the case, I would rather people did not allow their cats to breed at all

I would much prefer people to home a neutered cat from a rescue; freeing up space for other cats to be helped.

Gill (sneakiefeline) · « **Reply #4 on:** June 25, 2011, 14:08:03 PM »

I do not agree with this!

As an owner of a birman and about to get another one next Thursday, I would not accept one that was not registered and did not have a four generation family tree.

There is in my opinion, no reason for not registering the kittens unless of course you dont have the parents history and if you dont, there is no proof they are pedigree.

I learnt last night and there is so much to learn about pedigrees and that the many of the prefixes are admin ones allocated by the Gccf, which means that the breeders do not have their own, see link

http://www.gccfcats.org/nprefix.html

The cat I am collecting next week falls into this category as do my birmans despite having a father who was a very famous stud.

It is impossible to enforce any contract without resorting to the legal profession and you would probably need them or a contract specialist to draw up one that could be applied.

Again the cat I am collecting falls into this category because he was supposed to be neutered and wasnt.

The real question is.................Why does she want to breed because there is no good reason if they are not registered pedigrees.

Why do people want pedigrees? In my case because the birman breed has very special characteristics both in look and in personality and the breed has a very interesting history, and any pedigree without the family history cannot be guaranteed to have these.

Feline Costumier · « **Reply #3 on:** June 25, 2011, 14:05:46 PM »

Also, has she bought the cat as a breeding queen? If not whoever she got her from would be extremely unimpressed at an animal sold as a pet being bred from.

There is no reason to breed any animals at the moment, pedigree or not, as there are just not enough homes to go round. There are many breeds I adore and I have less issue with say one litter every couple of years with registered kits, full genetic testing and good breeder back up. However I'd rather it didn't happen at all until the desperate over-population of companion animals in this country is being dealt with.

Breeding just because you fancy it is a complete no go as far as I'm concerned.

Dawn F · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2011, 14:01:37 PM »

registration is the only protection the cats have from over breeding

lillylau · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2011, 12:41:20 PM »

I have a question for you all, How do you feel about unregistered cats, Pedigree but not GCCF. The reason I ask this is because, I have a friend who is wanting to breed Balinese cats, From my understanding she has read all the rules the GCCF set and is wanting to stay in the guide lines she is going to have her cats wormed de-flead, ect. her cats are heathly with no long turn illness of good type, she is not wanting to register them as she feel the only reason for registering then is to show and she has told me she is wanting then to go to good pet homes, She is willing to keep all the kittens she does not sell and she is putting a contract in place that if for any reason the cats cant be kept by the buyer she will have them back and that they arnt to be given to shelters etc, she is also going to get the kittens vet checked before leaving,

Here is my view, I do not think there is any difference between a registered cat and a moggie that is loved and gives love back in a family which they do become. I also think if she is willing to always have the kitten cat back then she is do the right and that if she does breed these cats and none sell she is going to keep them all.

I am sure that there are breeders who are GCCF registered that only breed the cats for profit, and A cat is a cat weather registered or not.

Author Topic: Your thoughts on breeding none registered cats (Read 3550 times)