Author Topic: Louis has moved out  (Read 2217 times)

Offline Laurensimm

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
Louis has moved out
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2013, 08:51:45 AM »
Morning, ahh thank you for that 😋. It's kind of still going on to he honest. I think the situation has altered slightly though now.

I'm not sure if cats, even when litter mates, can mature mentally at different rates, but I think its now a case of Milo wants to play and as soon as Lou is back home he chases after him! Louis still doesn't like it and still runs away, hisses, howls. Sometimes Lou stands his ground and swats milo on the head with his paw! Milo looks bewildered by this lol.

I think its now milo wanting to play because I've seen him chase other neighbourhood cats off and he fluffs up. He doesn't do that with Lou but there is one particular cat that lives across that comes to our yard sometimes and milo will quite happily allow it to come into the house and eat his food! He doesn't attack sooty! I don't understand that. It is really skinny though and I don't think its looked after properly. Perhaps milo senses this?

Milo only seems to chase Lou when he's first come back. After an hour or so he leaves him alone. They will even sit next to each other to eat. However, I can't see it ever going back to how it was pre summer, where they would snuggle together and groom each other. Lou tolerates being in the house with milo but I still have to go and fetch him from the bush on the road behind most evenings. As soon as I open the door in the morning Louis takes off.

I'm hoping that the bush will seem less appealing when the cold weather sets in and Lou will come home of his own accord.

Offline funkiechicken

  • Hero Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Nutty About Kitten-Cats!!
  • Slave to: Nuggie (& until recently Tazi x)...& Peanut "de Poirot"!
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2013, 01:15:44 AM »
Hi - Have things gotten better or is it just the same??

I thought i had to post as i saw an episode of My Cat from Hell where one cat had an "encounter" with a strange cat and then, as Tan explained started to re-direct its anger towards the other cat (they were close litter-mates)
The Cat Daddy (who is amazing if you have never seen him!) explained that cats recognise soley from scent and as cat 1 had a frightful fighting experience with the stranger cat, in his heightened state he saw Cat 2 he began attacking him. Therefore, ever since Cat 1 began associating the scent of cat 2 with this heightened state and cat 1's need to protect himself. Cat 1 was in fear and on edge. Cat 2 was in fear of cat 1 and running scared.
The Cat Daddy resolved this by going right back to basics and doing strict introductions as if these 2 cats had never met before in their lives (separation, scent swapping, feeding each other so only a door was between them, slowly seeing each other through a door screen etc) He explained the owners really didnt have room to cave in as any rushing would bring it back to square one.
It took less than 3 weeks and they were pals again  :Luv: :Luv: :Luv:

Milo needs to stop seeing Lou as being the cause of him feeling so threatened. Milo feels he is having to fight for his life. Lou is just bewildered at whats going on.....
It is worth a go (it would mean being strong and keeping them in as well) or perhaps trying to see if you can find the episode or see Cat Daddy web page - Unfortunately all i know is that is was part of the 2nd series......
Just thought i should share that and above all - i really hope i didnt need to and that Lou & Milo are back to at least tolerating each other!!!
 :hug: :hug:
Cats are independent, don't listen, don't come in when you call, stay out all night and when they're home they like to be left alone to sleep....Every quality that Women HATE in a Man, they LOVE in a Cat...

Nuggie (31.08.2002)
Peanut (14.12.09)
Sleep Tight Baby Tazi xx 04.04.98 - 20.10.11 xx

Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 9742
  • Slave to: Sky. Bridge babies Candy, Stripey, Chivers, Punky, Cleo and Alfie forever loved.
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2013, 21:52:49 PM »
'Laurensimm'  :hug: I am so sorry, this must be terribly hard for you.

Our situation is different from yours. We have taken in my SIL's 11 year-old female cat (SIL has gone to live abroad) and my resident 20 month old male (who is more than twice her size!) really isn't taking it well. Cleo is still spending most of the time in the spare bedroom but Alfie is not comfortable in the house anymore, it seems.

Offline Laurensimm

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
Louis has moved out
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2013, 18:39:08 PM »
Have u got a new cat or is it a neighbours? I'm worried that Lou doesn't want to come back because of his brother being a bully. I really wish this weather would do one so I can go back to having both my boys home. That's if Lou returns to his previous routine of coming home for tea time or being in the house when I get home. That seems a lifetime ago. He's no where to be seen at the moment. I feel like I only have one cat 😹

Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

  • Royal Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 9742
  • Slave to: Sky. Bridge babies Candy, Stripey, Chivers, Punky, Cleo and Alfie forever loved.
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2013, 17:27:24 PM »
Alfie has started coming home later and later at night recently. I don't know whether it is down to the heat, the new cat or a bit of both. Last night he was still out at 3.30 am  :( but was inside by 6.30 for breakfast.

I am frightened that new cat is responsible and I will lose my lovely boy  :'(

Offline Kay and Penny

  • Auction Staff
  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 5280
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2013, 10:23:43 AM »
cats do like routine, and by going to the hedge to fetch him I think you are doing the right thing, even if it doesn't work

I lived in Winchester many moons ago by a very busy road, and a wood on the other side of it - after my siamese had a brush with a car crossing the road, I took to carrying her over it in the mornings before work, and leaving her in the wood, and fetching her back in the evening - it sounds daft, but she soon got into the routine of waiting for me there, and I kept her safe like that for over a year, before we moved
Robert A. Heinlein:
How you behave toward cats here below determines your status in Heaven.

Offline Laurensimm

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
Louis has moved out
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2013, 08:21:16 AM »
Well funny you should say that about weight because he definitely hasn't lost weight even though all he is eating is half a pouch in the morning and then when I've found him a pouch and some biscuits in the evening. I hope no one is feeding him. He has a collar, bell and name tag on though.

He crossed quite a busy road to get to the hedge though and this worries me sick. I end up going to look for him for my piece of mind so I know he is ok. Yesterday was the first day that I knew he was definitely in the hedge and he ignored me for ages.

That's what I dread, that this has become his routine that will continue long after the hot weather has gone.

Their routine has always been that they come in in the evening and the flap is locked so nothing had changed there.

I guess I'm a control freak with my cats and I need to know they are safe. Sometimes, quite a lot actually, I wish I had kept them as house cats but I really don't think they would accept being house cats now after having a taste of freedom for over a year.

I felt like Louis had disowned me last night when he wouldn't come out of the hedge and its too thick and dark to see into it.

As for milo attacking Louis I really don't know what to do about that either. I think Lou is fed up of it. So am I!

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2013, 00:38:01 AM »
Ears back and tail swishing is not usually playful.

I think you should just persevere at present because I am sure the hot weather is partly to blame and I am having loads of problem getting my big Misa in, he will sit on the doorstep and when I open the doot he leaves again.

I am sure that is the weather too.

Mine are also hunting and that also coukld be a reasom he wants to be out.

Do you usually lock the flap before this started, if not I think you should go back to normal so he can pop in and out and feed. This keeps the bond with his home.

My Sasa did exactly what Louis is doing 2 yrs ago and she actually lived outside from July right thro to Jan in the rain and the snow but popped in to eat when she knew that I was in bed. Apart from turning fron a calico tortie to an orange one and ending up with teeth problems she was as heavy as she was when she pulled this stunt!

Then one January evening I found her inside and here she has stayed every since and only very infrequently goes out now and after 7 years she finally allowed me to stroke her.

Offline Laurensimm

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
Louis has moved out
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2013, 23:15:16 PM »
Hi again, I'm still worried about Louis - the last couple of days he hasn't come back and its got to 10pm with no sign of him. Today I went back to the hedge and as I was approaching I saw Louis at the edge but he went into the hedge and then wouldn't come out when I called and rattled his treats. Eventually he emerged enough for me to quickly grab him and carry him home.

Once home though he ate but then milo was jumping on him and Lou really wasn't happy. He hisses at milo and meows loudly.

I bought some of those da bird toys and milo loved it earlier. I tried playing with Lou with it and he was playing but as soon as milo heard he came down and Lou got tense and lost interest.

I worry that milo and Louis' relationship is damaged beyond repair (they used to be so close 😹) and that milo is part of the reason Lou isn't coming back home. Milo is probably getting more territorial as Lou isn't around much.

When I manage to get Lou in and lock the cat flap he walks around the house howling to go back out, even though he has been out from 7.30am until 10pm!

I know its hot weather but milo just stays around the back yard. I worry too that Lou has got into a routine now of living in the hedge and even when the weather gets cooler he still won't come home.

Help! I don't want Louis to leave home!

P.S. after they have both been in the house a while milo seems to be leaving Louis alone after the initial attacks. I'm not sure if milo is trying to play but his tail swishes and his ears are back when he pounces on poor Lou.

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 00:44:44 AM »
So pleased he has come home  ;D ;D

Offline Laurensimm

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
Louis has moved out
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 19:36:32 PM »
Ah thank you everyone - I have come home from work and Louis was actually in the house! First time in nearly two weeks! It's a bit cooler today though so perhaps it was the heat, although I have noticed today that a new neighbour had moved in and a cat is in their window. This new neighbours driveway is Louis's usual route into the road behind (he's been taking a different route) so I wonder if he smelled the other cat? I don't know, cats are funny things ... He's now gone back out, probably back to the hedge!

I think when milo was attacking Louis it probably was redirected aggression and I don't think Louis has quite forgiven milo yet!

Btw, milo is the black and white, Louis the black cat.

I feel a bit better now he has returned of his own free will! Really did think he had moved out! 

Offline Tan

  • Administrator/Shop Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 15702
    • Purrs Forum & Shop
  • Slave to: Marl, Garf, mr Blue, Gizzymo, Rio,Ochi,Ben, Bow & Arnie
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 18:49:27 PM »
Hiya  Lauren  :welcome:

It could be redirected aggression. Sounds like it to me. I have the same with my two since the 1st stray kept coming in to their cat proofed garden and their relationship has not been the same close one since.

Sounds like the trigger was the outsider cat with Milo.

Well done for the trying the feliway :)

Has Milo or Louis started peeing indoors to out their scent down? Has Milo shown signs of "big Boss" Alpha male ie blocking the cat flap, blocking the litter tray, food trays? 

Here's some info
-http://www.icatcare.org/advice-centre/cat-behaviour/aggression-between-cats
Why did my cat attack its companion when it saw a strange cat through the window?

Cases of re-directed aggression from one cat to another, triggered by an acute sense of threat from an external source, are also relatively common if there are underlying tensions. Cats have a very keen survival instinct that utilises an internal system referred to as the fight/flight mechanism that releases adrenaline, pumping the muscles full of blood, to prepare the body for danger. This massive emotional response can be triggered by a sudden sound or movement or the sight of another cat through a window but the ‘attack’ may be accidentally launched towards an innocent cat if they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Relationships between two cats in a household can be irretrievably damaged under these circumstances. Once again, the advice is to separate them into different rooms for 24-48 hours until they have both calmed down. If a re-introduction at that stage still results in active fighting it may be necessary to segregate them for a longer period and treat them like complete strangers meeting for the first time. (link to introducing a cat to a cat).


http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/redirected-aggression-in-cats/
Re-directed Aggression - This can manifest itself in several ways. For example,  Your two cats usually get on just fine, but when one of them walks in one evening he sets about attacking your other cat to such an extent that you have to separate them (never use your hands - use a pillow or a cushion - you will be next to be attacked). Again you are left thinking - what was all that about? You have assumed that the conflict is between your two cats, when in fact the conflict happened outside. The big cat from next door was in the garden again and your cat had just had a fight with him - his senses were still in a heightened state when he got back inside the house and your other cat took the full force of his frustration - he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

What to do: If you think your cat is enduring this kind or aggression then it is very important to establish the cause. You will need to keep a detailed diary of when they occur and how often. It may be that you have to keep your own two cats separate for a short while when one of them comes in, so he can calm down.
If it continues, you may need to keep them separate then slowly reintroduce them again.

If the cat from next door is coming in the cat flap or is staring through the patio doors, it may be an idea to cover the bottom half of the doors so he can’t see in or block the cat flap up. NEVER try to calm a cat down - this is only something he can do himself - you risk getting injured yourself if you intervene while the cat is still in a heightened state of anxiety. It may be that your own two cats need to be separated as seeing each other cat may just ‘trigger’ the aggression again, even though your other cat was never involved in the first place - a bit like us - we have a bad day at work and take it out on our partners when we get home - nothing to do with them, not their fault - but you take it out on them anyway!

 :hug:








Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

  • Rainbow Bridge/Rescue/Moderating Staff
  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 73567
  • Misa at 4yrs old and new with me
  • Slave to: Misa, Sasa, Franta Napoleon RIP, Ducha RIP and Lupin, Kocka RIP
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 18:12:40 PM »
I hope that this will change as time progresses, the good thing is you know where he is  ;D

Offline Dawn F

  • Purrrrrfect Cat
  • ******
  • Posts: 18579
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2013, 15:00:55 PM »
I agree with Kay sounds like he has found something fun!  one of ours who sleeps with us in bed without fail hasn't been near us at night since the good weather started, she is out in the garden all night doing who knows what!

Offline Kay and Penny

  • Auction Staff
  • Honorary Cat
  • *****
  • Posts: 5280
Re: Louis has moved out
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2013, 14:52:51 PM »
I doubt whether Milo is the cause of Louis spending most of his time outside, as cats who have been living together for some time rarely have a major fall-out

more likely there is something in that hedge area which he can't resist - these long hot days seem to bring out the hunting instinct in cats, and I think you need to see how he is after a few weeks

he may well now accept the being fetched in as part of the daily routine, and may be catching prey which means his in-house meals are no longer such a pull - it'd just go on as you are and see what happens when the days get shorter and the weather gets wetter
Robert A. Heinlein:
How you behave toward cats here below determines your status in Heaven.

Offline Laurensimm

  • Adult Cat
  • ***
  • Posts: 49
Louis has moved out
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2013, 13:35:47 PM »
Hi I'm new on here and am feeling a little desperate! I have two male cats (brothers) called Milo & Louis. They are 21 months old and they are both indoor and outdoor cats. They have a cat flap. They are both neutered.

They have always been close and used to chase each other, play fight and mutual groom. It's usually milo who initiates this.

About a month ago Milo had a bit of a spat with another neighbourhood cat and saw it off but, I don't know if any if this is linked, he soon after starting biting Louis and chasing him out of the yard. Milo has always been a bit of a butter and has pretty much always given Louis a bite on his lower back but Louis hisses at him, I shouted at him and then he left him alone. At this stage they would still play and groom. After the spat this got worse though and I resorted to time outs for milo, spraying him with a water spray (he just looked disgusted) and using two feliway plugins and a spray. After a couple of weeks it seemed to calm down.

A bit more background; Milo has always stayed around the backyards and I'm always seeing him marking objects with his face. Louis has always ventured a bit further and I have never seen him mark anything.

I don't know the reason for this but in the last week and a half Louis had taken to disappearing onto the road behind my road and hiding out in some hedging from the moment I let them out in the morning. He no longer returns home unless I literally go and fetch him.

It is really hot at the moment do it could be that but I would have thought he would have returned when he was hungry. I have been going to get him about 6.30pm but last night I waited until 9.20pm and he still hadn't returned.

When I go around and whistle at the edge if the grass he comes running out to me with his tail in the air and he allows me to pick him up and carry him home. But then once he had eaten he wants to go back out and the other night I had to retrieve him from the hedge again! I don't know what the obsession is with the hedge and I don't understand why he won't come home on his own accord. Milo isn't really attacking him anymore but I'm wondering if Louis has decided that the backyard is milo's territory and so he has established the hedge on the road behind as his territory.

How do I get him to come home on his own? I end up going looking for him because I need to know for my own sanity that he is safe. I feel like he has moved out and I'm sad that he doesn't come home. I like them to be in at night but last night he was howling to go back out (I kept them in).

Can anyone help me please?

Thanks, Lauren.

 


Link to CatChat