Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: Hippykitty on February 03, 2008, 16:20:12 PM
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Some silly booger has reported me to the RSPCA. For those who don't know, here's the backstory.
I have two old lady cats of my own, one is about 21 the other is around 18. They have lived with me happily for over 14 years. Recently I took on the task of trapping, socialising and rehoming 8 ferals. These are getting bigger by the day and are very healthy and happy. They live in an unused bedroom of my three bedroomed, two reception roomed victorian terrace, which has just me and the cats rattling around in it. Hardly overcrowded.
One of the ferals has gone to a new home, two have a home promised. I'm being super fussy about who has them because I've put months of work into their domestication.
I'm a bit reclusive, but go out on the occasional date, or for dinner with friends, never for more than a few hours. I even had to check with a friend to arrange care for the cats when I go into hospital for three days in March; I wouldn't go unless she could come and feed and change the bcats daily.
She will do this.
I don't open the front door unless I'm expecting someone. Friends ring first, some even phone from their mobiles to let me know they're outside! This is because I don't want nasty surprises like an enormous bill after the meter has been read.
A few days ago I was in the bathroom, which is downstairs at the back of the house, when I heard a woman's voice at the back of my house. She was talking to one of the students next door. Unfortunately, I couldn't leave the bathroom right then :-: but I listened to what they were saying. She asked: "do you see her around?"
"Yeah," he said.
That was the gist of it.
A day or so later I noticed some cat food had been spooned through the catflap. Weird, I thought, watching Polly picking at it even though she had Whiskas in her dish! I rang a friend and we mulled over the oddness of it. It was suggested that someone might think the house was empty because I don't use the front reception room since I stopped having lodgers. We thought if that was the case, there might be a note through the front door, along with the pile of junk mail. So I went and had a look.
I found a note from the RSPCA asking me to ring urgently, which I did. The guy on the phone was pleasant and told me that an anonymous complaint had been made about there being a lot of cats in the house and no one being there. I explained things to him. He said an officer would be calling in a day or so.
Yesterday I found that someone had put raw meat into the lean to at the back! I was furious, cos I firmly believe it to be harmful to my old ladies.
I went to the local shops earlier, the first time I've been out in daylight since this began. I went out on friday evening to celebrate imbolc. When I came back from the shop, I noticed that some selotape had been put over my keyhole and where the door meets the frame.
Why don't people mind there own :censored: business? If they were genuinely concerned about the cats they could have rung me. I put a note by my back door thanking them for their concern but my cats are well fed and cared for, but if they wanted to leave a tin of food for the feral rescue this would be welcome. The note had my phone number on it. They didn't call, they just left raw meat. :brick:
My mother suggested I try and catch the boogers (her words) so I'm sitting in the dark typing this by the light of my monitor, waiting for them to turn up again. The cats have been locked in with litter.
I hope the dreaded RSPCA don't take all my cats, ferals and P and S.......... :'( Sorry for the long rambling post.
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It's clearly a misunderstanding and one that will be resolved as soon as they see the cats and the conditions under which they are kept. I was once reported to the RPSCA over the condition of one of my horses (I had just got him back from someone who had been paid to care for him and had not). they were fine. If you act tense they will assume you are trying to hide something. Tell them what you have done, give them the contact details of the rescues you have been cooperating with and give them free access to check the conditions under which you are keeping the cats. This is not a good time to start getting defensive or angry or refuse access, so deep breaths and calm explanations and clean litter trays!! - you can also invite them to look at this site where your entire process is fully documented and time-dated, so they know what has been going on.
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I agree with BC ... although it does feel like people are "interferring" on the other hand you have to commend these people for actually caring enough about the cats that they called the RSPCA and put some food down. How often do we hear about poor neglected strays that have been "hanging round" for months and no-one ever did anything to help them.
As soon as the RSPCA see that everythig is in order and you are caring for your cats it will be case closed. Invite them in, offer them a cup of tea and keep smiling. You never know it could work to your advantage as you will be able to build a relatinship with the inspector and you never know when they may need you the next time they come across a feral that needs help ;)
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What I don't understand is, why didn't they just ring the number on the note. My phone number is hardly a secret, it's on the internet with the cat homing details on cat chat.
I'm perfectly willing to let anyone see the cats, they are healthy bundles of trouble. P and S are a bit frayed with age, but fine.
Maybe you have a point Sam, it would be great to get the RSPCA on my side. I've read so much negative stuff about them on purrs though.
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The tape over the key hole is a classic, probably the officer has been again. Phone them again and say your still waiting, it all gets logged.
I can imagine your annoyance but as they others have pointed out keep your cool with them and hopefully benefit. They can give you neutering vouchers if you need any ;)
Id love to catch someone spooning catfood into my house, their arm would be savaged by my eager neglected cats :rofl:
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If I was you I would print off some copies of a letter and send them to your neighbours.
Be polite, thank them for their concern, telling them its nice to know that they are animal lovers and while you are happy to speak to them or the rspca and welcome some full tins of catfood being donated for the cats you have rescued and are in the process of rehoming, you do not welcome food being put down. Explain that your own cats are old and have restricted diets and if they eat the wrong thing it could make them ill.
Reassure them that although they may not see you every day, you are actually there and the cats are cared for.
You could also add that they are welcome to come see for themselves (if they are that is!) and if they know of anyone who could offer a good home to one of your ferals to get in touch and that a home visit etc would be required before you rehomed.
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I've read so much negative stuff about them on purrs though.
the negativity usually stems from complaints that they are not doing their job. At the moment they are doing their job (ie investigating a report of an apparently vacant house with large numbers of cats) and so they should be encouraged, I reckon. Get in touch with them, don't wait for them to contact you. Their number and the case number should be on the note they left. Arrange a time when they can come around and make sure you make them welcome. They are only doing their job, for once. they will not take the cats away from you as you can demonstrate they are being properly cared for and that you are making responsible efforts to find homes for them. TBH they will probably be highly relieved to know this is not a case they have to chase up!
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Anyone know what kind of hours the RSPCA keep? Do I have to ring them in office hours, or could I give them a tinkle now?
Angie, it may be wise to keep the neighbours informed in case I'm tempted to catch the mum and some other ferals once these are homed. For the summer I'd be tempted to do TNR. CP do this, but they do in house FLV FIV tests and pts positive cats, which I don't agree with. Towards next autumn-winter I'll perhaps do some trap and keep warm then rehome. Oh, how did I get into this :Crazy:
The only downside with the letters is that, being a student area, there will be a different bunch next autumn, but at least the RSPCA will know who I am.
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We could do with that mob down here, HK. You can't get them out of bed, let alone actually respond to a report of concern for a cat's welfare... :rofl: :rofl:
All you've got to do is let them see your puds are fine. It's not like they're sort of things to spend their dosh. :)
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doesn't it tell you when to call on the note they left?
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No, it just said to call them 'urgently'. I think it was way after six when I rang.
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the worst that can happen if you call it now is that no-one will answer. Give it a go. :hug:
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I just rang them and was told that the inspector involved would be in touch. The woman I just spoke to said that "I only need to ring once" I told her that I wanted to make arrangements for someone to come and see the cats, and she said the inspector would be in touch. So I asked WHEN and was told "as soon as they're back on duty". Apparently they have three days off after they've done some work :shocked:
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try to remember you are being positive and helpful, not pushy and aggressive. The first will get a good result,. the second will put them way off side before they ever meet you. At least now you know someone will be in touch. But if you have not heard in a few more days (count tomorrow as day one of three) then call them again. But remember to say you are simply anxious to resolve the situation so they can move onto other more urgent matters, rather than the 'well where the heck are you! >:( ' approach which will make them hate you.
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Talking about the RSPCA....atleast this is a good way of seeing what they actually do, to know that they do act quickly.....let's face it in a different situation/people etc this would maybe be a godsend for other's that do have a plight! ;D
Dont worry HK! You know you are doing your best for the kitties and they will see this also! :hug:
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I bid £5 that the inspector never bothers to get back to you :evillaugh:
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It's such a shame that they have such a bad reputation....I am sure a lot of the inspector's are genuine just wrapped up in red tape a lot of the time! :sigh:
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at the risk of sounding alarmist and taking a very different view from others posted so far, you might want to read the advice given on this website about what your rights are and what rights the RSPCA have:
http://the-shg.org/index.htm
Given that you know there isn't an issue to address, apart from whoever is leaving raw meat and cat food around your property and after reading the SHG advice, I wouldn't be inclined to make any further contact with the RSPCA nor would I allow them into my home.
(Apologies in advance to any RSPCA members/volunteers on this site who may feel that I'm being unfair to the overall organisation and the good work they do but it's not unknown for the RSPCA's approach in some areas to be less than ideal)
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with all due respect, if you refuse access, then you are simply going to escalate the situation into an investigation. If there is nothing to hide, then why refuse them access. Sure, if you are feeling uneasy then you have a friend with you when they call so that they can be an independant witness, but frankly refusing them access would be really stupid IMO
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I think a lot of people allow the RSPCA onto their property because they think the RSPCA are somehow "official" and on a par with the police, which they're not - a view that the RSPCA appears happy to reinforce and strikes me as being more than a little dishonest. Also, it seems to me that at one level the RSPCA have already started an investigation.
Like I said, it's an alternative point of view that HK might wish to consider.
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Hippykitty I am so sorry that you have been reported for which seems to be a misunderstanding. I am 47 and I can see both sides of this as I have reported people in the past with very good reason and no doubt but last year I found a cat walking in the middle of the road, skinny, 3 legs smelt of stale urine and clumpy fur. A young boy was stood looking at the cat and I asked oif he knew who the cat belonged to and he said no. As I had never seen the cat before I phoned the RSPCA and they said they would pick it up in about 1 hour.
However, a man and woman who only live 7 doors away from me knocked on my door and said the cat was theirs and hardly goes out. They explained that they wash the cat all the time and had it operated on to remove the leg the previous year and it was just a matter of time for them to decide to make the dreaded call to the vet. I told them I had no idea and was only worried about the cat as it was walking very slowly in the road and the traffic on the bend where I live is bad. I gave the cat back and I heard a few weeks later that the cat did take a turn for the worse. I phoned the RSPCA and explained.
At other times in my life the RSPCA have rescued dogs and a rabbit that I reported. I know lots of people who have adopted dogs and cats from the RSPCA and all are fantastic. My 1st cat was from the RSCA and my Bonnie is 10 and I got her from RSPCA in Dec 2007 and she had been with them from May 2007 being treated as her previous owner didn't care. I go to RSPCA regular now and everyone who works there seems great. Yes, maybe some of them or some towns/counties might have employees who are not acting as they shoould but we can not say that ALL RSPCA workers are bad On TV I often hear them say they can not enter a property wihout police permission but maybe some do give the impression that they can - in the world we live in there is good and bad in everyone (i.e. good cops - a friend of mine is fab but alsobad cops)Good luck with clearing everything up and hopefully some good will come out of this terrible misunderstanding.
Mary
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I am intersest in thatv link Duchess cos it seems to me that it was written before the Animal Welfare Bill came into force and has not been updated!
Many of us are wary of RSPCA but I do not think the link looks acurate, if you know how old the info is I would be interested to know.
I have also PMed you this afternoon but no answer!!
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I'm inclined to think that taking the advice of that link would escalate the matter out of all proportion. I'm happy to have anyone see how well-kept both my own and the rescue cats are. In fact, I positively welcome it. The house is untidy, but not like those scenes you see on telly, where there is feaces all over the floor. No, mine's just cluttered with books and cat stuff like carrying cages etc. It's not an ideal home, except for cats. The cats advertise the care they've been given. They are cuddly in size and playful, even though they are still wary of people.
Polly and Samantha look a little frail with age. But it's obvious to anyone who is experienced with cats that they aren't ill or suffering from neglect. Far from it - I focus my life around my cats.
I'm not 'hoarding' but have acquired the rescues through deliberate trapping to get them through the winter then home them. The eldest have been neutered/spayed, the younger ones are only about 4mths and too young to have done. I'm not breeding. On the contrary, I'm going to stop them doing so by having their nuts chopped off or their kittening factory removed.
The RSPCA are welcome to see them, but not to remove them. I'll make sure I have someone with me, so will arrange a day and time when a friend can be here. But I've read of some terrible decisions made by the RSPCA on this site. Of them taking action where no action was needed and vice versa. I think Ela has detailed some of these instances.
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I've just been here and got really scared!
http://cheetah.webtribe.net/~animadversion/
among other things it says that animals have been taken by the RSPCA purely because houses were untidy! And that they act like a law unto themselves. Maybe the Duchess is right after all.
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i agree with you HK and i think if you have a friend there that will also be a good idea. i think bcs advice at the beginning was very good and the way forward.
we have seen the kittens and you have done great job with them ;D
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Yes. I'm sure you have nothing to worry about. As bad a rep as they have, they will see exactly how well cared for the cats are. I had to collect a pregnant cat from a house last year where the woman said the cat was a stray but although she thought she couldn't deal with kittening, she wanted the cat back after they were born. The house was really dirty but her cats were well looked after. The litter tray was clean, there was fresh food and water and the cats looked healthy. I had no qualms about the cat going back to her (apart from the area) because it was evident that she loved and cared for her cats. I agree that it's a good thing they are checking as not everyone looks after their animals that well.
Do you have any contact with the local CP? - maybe they could get someone to be there with you?
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The only contact I've had with the local CP has been to collect neutering vouchers for the ferals and I also contacted them asking if they would use their network of contacts to advertise the fact that I had ex-ferals up for homing. I had a snotty email which said something along the lines of there being a lot more to feral rehoming than just finding homes. She then went into a rant about FLV and FIV testing and pts of positives etc. I sent a return email stating that I disagree with the pts policy and had nothing more to do with them.
So in short, no, I don't have any CP connections. I sometimes speak to Pauline from WellCat, but she's always busy looking after all her cats. I do have one very strong-minded friend who would willingly be with me, provided the time can be arranged to suit her work.
I haven't managed to catch the :censored: who has been trying to feed my well-fed cats. I gave up sitting in the dark some time ago. Why don't people just mind their own :censored: :censored: business?
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Last February I called the RSPCA because a cat (now my cat) had a broken leg and ended up in my garden, still waiting for them to call. October last year a stray cat whether feral or not I do not know, but it had been fighting, it looked manky and it was in my kitchen and would not leave I picked it up and oh what a big :censored: mistake that was it shredded my arms to bits and peed all over me. Call the RSPCA an inspector called 9 hrs later, telling me to go in to my garage get a club hammer and smash it's :censored: head in, he was not prepared to get involved as he had previously lost half a thumb :evillaugh: and was not prepared to lose another. Then earlier this year one of my lot bought a couple of birds indoors, they were still alive but in shock and had lost a lot of feathers again telephoned them was told that they would arrive between 10 and 11 the following morning. Still waiting.
So don't hold your breath that they will call unless they have a branch local to you or you have a TV crew standing by outside your house!
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Dont understand why they dont ring the number on the note or simply knock on the door ?
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Hippykitty ...i wouldnt worry about any of this as rspca are famous for doing NOTHING, unless its money then their all over you like a rash. I cant help snigger at the thought of rspca calling on you when recenlty they couldnt even get off their backsides to remove these horses /ponies that they knew about for YEARS. There will be a lot more animals like these horses that they did nothing for.
The true fact is unless you threaten rspca into action you will grow old waiting for them to move on their own.
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I'll worry forever if they don't come and get this over with!
A while down the thread, Angie suggested that I print off a friendly letter concerning what I'm doing and post this through neighbour's doors. What do peeps think of the tone of this? Is it soft enough?
Dear Neighbour,
Last November I decided to do my part for the growing feral cat population of Selly Oak. These are the result of unspayed and unneutered student cats who have been abandoned at the end of the academic year, consequently breeding into colonies.
It was mentioned to me that one such colony existed behind the hairdressers and chemist on Raddlebarn Road. Winter was drawing in, so I rescued two generations of kittens, both with the same mother. There were three who were approximately 6 months old, and five who were about 2 months of age. After trapping them, using a humane feral trap, I had the older group neutered and put all of them into an unused back bedroom of my house where they are warm and well fed, and began the process of socialing them.
Some have found homes, the others are awaiting rehoming.
You may, therefore, have noticed several cats in my house. I also have my own two cats, Polly and Samantha, who have been with me for many years. Yes, a lot of cats.
Some of you seem to be under the misapprehension that the house is unoccupied because I do not have a use for the front reception. The house is occupied almost all the time. Therefore the cats are not left to fend for themselves at all.
During the warmer months I may possibly be doing TNR (trap, neuter, return). Whether I go ahead with this depends on many factors, not the least of which being the kind tolerance of my neighbours.
If you have any questions, please call me for a chat.
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I wouldn't worry too much about this. If they turn up they are just doing their job by following up a complaint, and I'm sure that when they see that all your cats (inc ferals) are well looked after and that you are obviously a caring and responsible owner, they will accept that. I would be pleasant and polite (but slightly on your guard) and it would be a good idea to have a friend there to witness the meeting if possible. I know the rspca get a bad rap on here (I'm not exactly their biggest fan) but I'm sure there are some good people working for them who aren't just on a power trip and recognise good owners when they meet them. At least lets hope so!
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I'm sure everything will be fine HK and the letter sounds fine, the main thing is to stay calm and I'm sure they'll realise that they have been misinformed.
Re the RSPCA, I got involved in our local one a few years ago and ended up on their committee. The inspectors do have a large work load and I have to say, ours are caring and do their job with the animals at the foremost of their mind. When I first got involved, I was of the same opinion as most other people but by being part of it, you can actually see what goes on. We know what the money is being spent on and also have a say as to how it is spent. Our local branch spend a lot of money on the ferals by covering all the spaying/neutering of any that I trap and I have to say, since I've been doing this, they have been a big support to me and what I do. What people fail to understand and god knows how many times I end up saying this, when you ring the RSPCA you are actually through to a call centre, not the RSPCA. All calls that are taken should be passed onto the Inspector but like in anything, fluffybanana ups are made. Their main problem is down to this, even I've phoned them and have been offered rubbish advice and also been told things that I know aren't true with being on the committee. I always suggest if you phone up and are not happy with the response they've given you, phone again until you get someone who cares about the animals, and not just someone who is in it for the job. I know this shouldn't be the case but sadly it is. In life, if you want to make a difference, instead of sitting there criticising, do something about it and by getting involved, you can make a difference. I am talking about the local branches here, not the HQ, they are a different entity all together :sneaky:
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Hippykitty, I think the letter sounds fine and it will ease your mind and your neighbours should be happier. However, I would wait until after the RSPCA have called to see you and then you could add to the letter that the RSPA have been and are happy with what you are doing and you could even give the name of the RSPCA person that comes to see you and a tel. number for them to contact the RSPCA to confirm everything is ok. It's a pity that for whatever reason your neighbours don't know that you are there and as you all seem to be cat lovers could get together and help all the cats in the neighbourhood.
Good luck.
Mary
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One small change I would make re the trap, I would say "after taking expert advice from X cat rescue, I borrowed a humane trap from them.........
Just to make sure they know you know exactly what you are doing - "well meaning but misguided" neighbours :innocent:
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I think Ela has detailed some of these instances.
Have I?
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I wouldn't worry too much HP once you explain I'm sure it will be fine - a friend of mine reported a cat that was always outside and a bit shabby looking the inspector called her back once he had visited and explained it was elderly with a few medical problems but they were all been treated and left it at that
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I've had the visit from the RSPCA inspector. She was very nice and seemed to be a cat person. She saw my cats, including ferals, and was very happy with the conditions they were in and kept in. She's even bringing a cat play tree for them and has offered help with food if I need it. I have been given neutering vouchers.
On the whole, she was helpful rather than officious, and I pleased with how things went. I had a friend, Nigel, with me just in case things got out of hand. At one point she did frighten me by mentioning the option of taking them to the RSPCA homing centre, which I steadfastly refused.
I'll keep everyone posted about how things go. She's bringing the play tree over tomorrow.
Thanks for that advice Maryas, I'll slip that into the note.
:thanks:
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:cheer: :cheer: :yesss: :clap: So pleased for you - what a weight off your shoulders it must be. Getting lots of help from them is very good too.
Good luck with the neighbours - Sure all will be well now.
Any chance of photos of all the happy chaps you have? Would be nice to see who we are talking about and have some Awwwwwwwwwwws :) :)
Mary :hug:
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Wow, only just caught up with this thread!
Glad the visit went well, and defo think the letter to your neighbours is a great idea.
Well done :hug:
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Thats great HK, so pleased the visit went well and offering help too ;D ;D
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Glad it went OK :hug:
I would take any help they offer as they have the money ;)
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Very good news, a competent inspector will always go with an open mind and she seems to be being very helpful, so you may even develop a useful partnership there ... we are all on the same side, even if at times our methods vary somewhat .... ;D
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Excellent news HP ... so glad it went well and as I hoped you may now have a new "friend" in the RSPCA inspector. ;)
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So glad it worked out in the end- had a read of this last night and was wondering how on earth it could get to the point where they were putting food through the cat flap!! Glad it has been all sorted and they now see what a great job you are doing!! :hug:
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:shocked: Im surprised they came back to you but im pleased you can now stop worrying about them turning up. And hopefully the vouchers are for full costs :evillaugh:
What a rough time you have had for your first attempt at rescue! :hug:
Just a thought, maybe it wasnt a neighbour who reported you but someone you turned away who wanted to rehome :-:
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Glad it's all turned out for the best and deffo agree that the letter (plus suggested changes) would be a good idea. You never know, you might even get some offers of help ;D
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I wondered about that MM, but the only enquirers who know my address have been a family who are picking up Newbie and Smudge soon, and a middle aged couple where the wife was okay, but the husband who was built like a rugby player, wouldn't stop attempting to touch one of the twins he had cornered, in spite of me constantly asking him to sit down and not approach the cats. I politely gave them WellCat's number, warning the woman who runs that rescue that they might be on their way and to point them towards a very confident cat.
Most people have been weeded out over the phone. I hate the "have you got kittens for sale?" peeps. Or "I'm thinking of buying a kitten as a present for my daughter/wife etc". Me: "do they know about this?" Them: "no I wanted it to be a surprise". Me: "it's perhaps not a good idea to give a cat as a present; please ask your daughter/wife to give me a ring etc...." I'm getting better at this and being very fussy. 8)
Just been out for a curry to celebrate everything going well (touch wood). I've must have been more tense about this than I realised cos I couldn't stop giggling when I was out tonight, maybe due to the stress being released. :rofl:
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Just been out for a curry to celebrate everything going well (touch wood). I've must have been more tense about this than I realised cos I couldn't stop giggling when I was out tonight, maybe due to the stress being released. :rofl:
Nothing to do with a celebratory (SP?) tipple then? :evillaugh:
Glad it all went okay for you HK....and it seem's you may also get some backing from them too! ;)
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More to do with the silly tales a friend was telling me about his mate who is undergoing a sex change. Apparently, he mail ordered some fake boobs and couldn't work out why they wouldn't fit properly. He eventually realised that he'd been sent two left ones :rofl: This and many silly stories on same subject.
Nothing to do with a celebratory (SP?) tipple then? Evil Laugh
No, only had half a lager.....and a liquer coffee!
I hope things continue in the same vein with RSPCA, if so it could be a very helpful contact.
Thanks everyone for keeping me sane while I was worrying about this.
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I remember knowing someone years ago who was going through one. "Marie" had hormone boobs but was still waiting for the op and was sick of waiting - he said he was going to phone for an ambulance and when he heard the siren outside, he was going to chop it off so there was time to save him. Someone informed him that they needed the bits to turn inside out or something :sick:
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He eventually realised that he'd been sent two left ones :rofl: This and many silly stories on same subject.
Aw at least he was'nt left feeling a right t.i.t! :evillaugh:
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I remember knowing someone years ago who was going through one. "Marie" had hormone boobs but was still waiting for the op and was sick of waiting - he said he was going to phone for an ambulance and when he heard the siren outside, he was going to chop it off so there was time to save him. Someone informed him that they needed the bits to turn inside out or something :sick:
Apparently we have the same as you'se but just on the inside! :sick:
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Don't male cats have inverted penises? Maybe that's what happens with the sex change op, they just invert it like a cats. Oh dear, I've just thought of the line "to make a pussy".....!
You can see why there was so much giggling. The friend I had the curry with was even telling me how his mate showed him his now hormonally grown glories......I was laughing so much it hurt! :rofl:
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Maryas, must take some new piccies of the cats. Here's a link to a video I made of them about a month ago. They are bigger and less nervous now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flg8q7l70UQ
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Nice clip - thanks. They are all gorgeous, markings on them are so nice.
Mary
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Glad to hear that the RSPCA lady was so helpful, and you might be able to use her to help find homes for them.
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I'm glad this thread had a good outcome, I was a little worried for you HippyKitty.
has the food dropping ceased yet?
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Sorry so long getting back to you, but have been locked out of my computer, forgot my password! It was the RSPCA inspector who'd ladled the food through the cat flap, and I think Samantha may be raiding bins. When I first took her in, she turned over every bin in the house. So she's been raiding local bins!