Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK

Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Sootyca on June 24, 2016, 20:48:55 PM

Title: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on June 24, 2016, 20:48:55 PM
Thought she may have pulled a muscle but hasn't improved.

Last Sunday she took ages getting up the stairs, had been sick a couple of times (watery), didn't eat breakfast (honestly, this is a *huge* thing for her - in 6yrs I don't remember her missing any meal) and was walking very strangely - her back legs splayed out and she was unsteady.  The unsteadiness shifted and she ate again.  she just hasn't managed to get upstairs easily - down is no problem at all, jumping is no problem she just struggles going upstairs which isn't normal.

I thought it would clear up (gave her a tiny bit of metacam which seemed to help) and for a couple of days she seemed to get better but she's back at 1 step at a time.  Nothing seems to be hurting her so a little confused.  I've videoed a few examples for the vet. 

This is tonight:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amK_9T3I8zw&feature=share

This is a couple of days ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvdwO0wlao&feature=share

And 4 days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AKaXwCCT8w&feature=share

Bless her, she is determined to get to her goal even when can see she really is struggling.  As I've watched them back she does seem to stumble on her front right paw when she is bounding.  Glad I can show the vet properly what she is like so he can see - better than trying to describe it!

She's in on Tuesday unless she recovers!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 24, 2016, 21:13:51 PM
Looks like she has a problem at tail end, maybe bottom of spine or one leg.

Misa has arthritus badly in one back leg and across spine and not so bad in other leg.

On xray showed he had a pin in bad leg from hip to knee, nobody knew so happened before I got him.

He went from normal to not being able to stand or walk.

I should have gone for the xrays and tests at start cos he was given a metacam jab but 1 or 2 days later he was worse.

Please get her to the vet asap...............two vets couldnt find any pain in Misa and all his rections wee fine but he couldnt walk.............she may even have a dislocation.

I now know why Misa has always walked with funny little steps for a giant cat but he now cant groom from the waist down.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on June 24, 2016, 21:29:08 PM
I'm surprised she can jump though and run downsttairs with no problems. I did wonder if it was something in her back end as when she has been to the loo for a smelly she flies out of the litter box like something hurts her.  She's fine for wees.  Soonest I could get an appointment was Tuesday night but there would be emergency appointments if she gets worse. 

The metacam helps but it is clearly only disguising what's wrong so I'm not prepared to treat with metacam without knowing what's going on.  I know they will say some of her problem is weight related but the stairs issue isn't about her weight - she gets around and jumps fine.  It's simply going up them that's causing her a problem.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 24, 2016, 22:57:35 PM
Misa no longer comes upstairs and wont have his metacam........sigh but other than not being able to jump and lie without his bad leg straight out he is getting round OK at the moment.

I think he doesnt like the taste of it but I kept him in all winter but he is out right now.............sure warmth helps.

Forgot to say the Sky is gorgeous  ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on June 28, 2016, 21:17:50 PM
She's a mystery!  Been given a clean bill of health - had a very thorough check and the only things that were even slightly  wrong were a tiny bit of resistance in her right rear leg and a tiny reaction when her spinal check was done.  She was pushed and pulled like a rag doll and barely reacted to anything. Temperature, eyes, kidneys ...all fine. no pain reactors anywhere.

She's home with some metacam - if it works then they will look further. If not then I can either take her back or just keep an eye on her. The vet said her cats go upstairs like that - I said that that may be the case but it is completely abnormal for Sky - in 6 year she has never ever hobbled up stairs.

So a mystery. 

Except when I got home and she was led on my bed and got her claws caught. I had a blinding flash of remembrance that about 10 days ago she did the same thing except got her right front leg caught in something in my wardrobe. I tried to free her by pulling her towards it and did have hold of her right leg quite tightly. She then yanked it free. 

So, I'm now wondering if it's that - although I would expect after 10 days for it to have shown improvement and she doesn't show any sign of pain when you touch the leg and no limping on it.  On the videos though she does stumble on the right front paw and in some it seems like she ccan't lift it high enough at times.

So, we'll have to see how it goes.  Good news though - she is now a mere 5.3kg - last weigh in ws 7.2kg  :Crazy:  It has been a couple of years since weigh-in so it's not been sudden!!!

Poor Misa, if only he knew that the metacam would help him :( 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on June 28, 2016, 22:59:02 PM
Very good news that Sky has been given a clean bill of health!  ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on June 29, 2016, 00:07:17 AM
Misa also was a total mystery and showed no sign of pain and was pushed and pulled but it was there, just hidden and he now cant groom properly and lies with his right leg straight out and does not come upstairs any more.

So please keep an eye on her cos I didnt go for xrays etc  to start with and two vets couldnt find the problem until the xrays.

It might be a muscle strain causee when she got caught and it can take a while for things to improve.

Also Ducha broke a bone in his foot jumping off the sofa and being 3 legged caused him huge problems, again xrays shoed the break and he needed 6 weeks cage rest to allow it to heal. A 4 legged cat maybe would have got around  so would not have been so noticable.

Sending best wishes to Sky  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on June 30, 2016, 06:47:12 AM
Sky is absolutely gorgeous.   :Luv:

It's a strange one, and no mistake, but I'm inclined to agree with Gill, that sometimes it's not always immediately obvious to someone who doesn't live with the cat to detect any changes and abnormalities.  I'd keep a good eye on her, and if things don't improve, maybe ask for X-Rays to be taken.

Susanne's Mosi injured his tail a few weeks ago, and a vet inspection couldn't pinpoint the problem, but thankfully it's healed now, and he's back to his usual bouncy self.  Moray had an intestinal infection earleir this year, which lasted three weeks.  Again, our vet couldn't put his finger on what it was, but we knew he had a temperature, was off his food, throwing up and had the trots.  Luckily, it cleared up after a course of meds, but we just can never predict.

It's good that you know how she should be, and how's she's been, and also that you have the video footage, which may help if you need to go back.  Am hoping however that she won't need to, and will recover steadily.   :hug:

Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Rosella moggy on June 30, 2016, 08:40:16 AM
Except when I got home and she was led on my bed and got her claws caught. I had a blinding flash of remembrance that about 10 days ago she did the same thing

You might want to consider clipping claws?  :shy:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 01, 2016, 09:48:50 AM
Her claws aren't overly long she just gets them caught occasionally. :)

Anyway I've called the vet again.  Last night when she jumped she wouldn't put her back left leg down as she landed.  She moved forward on it but wouldn't put down as she landed.   This morning on her way upstairs her back left gave way under her. 

The metacam is not doing anything.

I can't accept that this is normal.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 01, 2016, 09:53:27 AM
No, I think you're right to be concerned.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on July 01, 2016, 15:00:59 PM
Poor Sky - and poor you!  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 01, 2016, 21:22:33 PM
Sounds like xrays are needed.

Do hope Sky will be Ok cos this is definately not normal  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 04, 2016, 13:44:01 PM
In tonight at 6.30.  Now manages 3 or 4 steps and stops for rest.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 04, 2016, 13:47:38 PM
Sending loads of good wishes  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 04, 2016, 14:02:44 PM
Adding my thoughts and hugs for tonight's visit.   :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 04, 2016, 16:43:43 PM
I hope that they can find out the problem and find a course of treatment for the very lovely sky. :hug: :hug: :hug:. Good Luck :crossed:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 04, 2016, 19:01:38 PM
Different vet. Immediately said that her going up stairs wasn't right - like she drags herself.  When he felt her back legs he was harsher than the vet last week and she really reacted - worse on the rear left.

She is to go in tomorrow for xrays. He suspects it is a problem with both knees but could be hip.  Xraying all 4 legs and see what happens.

If there is a problem I will be very very angry with the vet from last week.  I didn't say anything to vet tonight but if there is a problem there will be trouble.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on July 04, 2016, 19:48:01 PM
I'm so glad you persevered with this rather than believing the first vet! Am really hoping that this turns out to be nothing serious  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 04, 2016, 20:01:57 PM
Everything crossed that the x-rays show up the problem and it can then be corrected. Go Sky :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 04, 2016, 20:23:37 PM
Thanks for all the support, means a lot.  :hug: :hug:

Hopefully will know more tomorrow - I'm either neurotic and she is fine or instinct and knowledge of your cat's behaviour should be listened to.  I'm trying not to jump ahead of myself with problems - biggest problem I forsee at the moment is no food after supper tonight!  :Crazy: :Crazy: :Crazy:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: heather sullivan on July 04, 2016, 21:16:24 PM
my old cat (21) Tabby has had arthritis in her back knee for about 8 years, she walks very stiffly on it and goes up a few stairs at a time and then has a rest. Hope they find out what the problem is for Sky tomorrow and treatable :)
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 04, 2016, 21:35:21 PM
my old cat (21) Tabby has had arthritis in her back knee for about 8 years, she walks very stiffly on it and goes up a few stairs at a time and then has a rest. Hope they find out what the problem is for Sky tomorrow and treatable

I don't mind if going up the stairs like that will be her new normal as long as I can be sure she isn't in pain. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Mark on July 04, 2016, 23:52:15 PM
Good luck for tomorrow Karen. Hopefully if it is a touch of arthritis, a low dose of Metacam will help her. I am with you on the starvation - always the hardest part as they don't understand why we are being mean.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 05, 2016, 00:18:40 AM
Hope they find the problem tomorrow..............its a relief when you know  :hug: :hug: :hug:

Misa can get upstairs if he eats his metacam even a few times a week and its a very low dose but he just wont have it right now.

Yesterday he nearly ran outside before he remembered he couldnt.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 05, 2016, 05:44:32 AM
Karen, instinct seldom proves you wrong.  Trust it.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 05, 2016, 10:42:23 AM
Nervously waiting now.  She was very subdued this morning and didn't want breakfast.

Fortunately I'm home working today so can worry in peace!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 05, 2016, 13:30:25 PM
She's out of xray and recovering  well :Luv:

Picking her up at 6ish tonight when the vet wants to see us to go through the xray results.  didn't ask for any idea on what is wrong - any bad news can be put off until later.  Just glad she is fine from the anaesthetic.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 05, 2016, 13:33:29 PM
 :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on July 05, 2016, 15:25:19 PM
Glad that your girl is through the anaesthetic and recovering well  ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 05, 2016, 19:13:01 PM
We're home - she's unsteady on her paws, was sat in wee when I collected her and has one eye pupil that is far bigger than the other......so I'm not overly impressed at the moment!

Vet was lovely and was very good at going through the Xray but was also very apologetic as there is nothing they can do for her.  She basically has lesions along her spine - in the lower lumber spine it has bridged a couple of the vertebrae.  She is having problems because of how the nerve travels down the spinal canal and at some points the lesions will impinge on the nerve and cause discomfort - which explains why sometimes she can bound upstairs for a few steps and others she can't (I think it depends on her positioning!).

She could have medication but at the moment it doesn't seem appropriate - further down the line it may be more of an option but at the moment as her only issues are getting upstairs and occasional jumping I'm not going to start her on that.  She is in more discomfort than pain he thinks.

I'm glad that instinct proved right. This is basically going to be her new normal.  She does still have to lose weight as that will help her but on the flip side of that she is now having to have her activity limited a little - she has to be encourage NOT to go upstairs or to jump anywhere.   Fortunately she isn't a very active cat anyway but will have to really watch what she does and try to make being low down more attractive than high up!

Ultimately she is likely to get worse but he doesn't know how quickly.  It's just a case of monitoring her.  Fortunately she's an indoor cat mainly and is very easy to keep an eye on :)
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: heather sullivan on July 05, 2016, 21:33:50 PM
At least you know what the problem is now, and even if she needs medication in the future, it sounds like she will manage okay until needed. It might be worth giving her some Stride or glucosamine to help keep her joints lubricated? :)

or you could invest in one of these? ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hja6SEkikz4
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 05, 2016, 22:02:12 PM
I'm fairly certain she would *love* a stairlift.....however, we will resist!  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 05, 2016, 22:12:25 PM
Well it could be worse and at least is manageable, long may it continue to be. :hug: :hug: :hug:, as you say she is fairly sedentary so hopefully you will have her for a long time yet. :Luv:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 05, 2016, 23:19:04 PM
I will do some research to see if there is anything that can be done to try and slow the progress or treatment but most searching so far have brought up similar problems in humans.

Still waiting for one of her pupils to go back to normal - and she is so sad looking tonight!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 06, 2016, 03:55:22 AM
Oh Honey :care: :care: :care:, I hope that she is better today. Take care :hug:

Paula xxx
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 06, 2016, 05:53:51 AM
Sending gentle but very spehsul snoozles for Skye from us all at Chez Moray.    :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on July 06, 2016, 08:45:04 AM
what a shame but at least you know what you are up against  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 06, 2016, 13:44:45 PM
I am so sorry but at least you know what the problem is and that you are not going crazy!

Have you asked why one pupil is bigger? have they dilated her eye maybe?

I am sure Misa would love a stairlift too  :evillaugh:

Misa has lost weight which will take some of the weight off his tail end but he still cant jump or go up stairs unless he takes his metacam.

I hope Sky has many happy years ahead with you, she will change her lifestyle to suit her situation, I think its probably easier for cats to do than their humans  :hug: :hug: :hug:

Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 07, 2016, 15:58:16 PM
Having had a couple of days for it to sink in, I'm wondering now whether the vet is right in that there is nothing that can be done.

Trying to research but struggling to find much information - I think if there is anything that can be done it would require specialists and travel, and then ethically is it kind to put her through the risk of surgery.

As for Sky, she is still quite nervy and worried. Her eyes are back to normal (it's a side effect of anaesthetic sometimes that they can be dilated and when that works through the system they go back to normal).  She is a bit wobbly when she is walking and quite weak in the back end.  She does like the vets recommnedation of not to do much running around :) I'm still hoping some of it will be anaesthetic - she is purry and loves her fusses. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 07, 2016, 16:19:22 PM
Is it worth an exploratory email to Noel Fitzpatrick just to ask what they think at the hospital re the prognosis for Sky do you think? It wouldn't be committing you to anything and you never know. Just a thought

Am glad she is purry again :Luv:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 07, 2016, 17:49:20 PM
Is it work an exploratory email to Noel Fitzpatrick just to ask what they think at the hospital re the prognosis for Sky do you think? It wouldn't be committing you to anything and you never know. Just a thought

Am glad she is purry against :Luv:

I did think about doing this for a few specialists - all the sites say they don't give advice but it isn't advice as such - it's more if there is any treatment available as I know what the problem is.   

I don't think it would hurt - I think I owe it to her to try and see. 

To cap it all Robbie jumped on the bed and stood on her worse leg. She is okay but hissed and spat - he flew and now is limping and holding his paw up.  Hoping he has just tweaked something.  Can't cope with 2 sorry for themselves cats!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 08, 2016, 14:25:59 PM
Have emailed a few now and waiting for referals. Fitzpatricks have said they would see her to look at - but they are about 4.30 hours away so it is a real long journey for if there is nothing that would change. They have also said they would look at the xrays and give advice free of charge which would be a better option - if they agree with the view of my vet that there is nothing that they can do then that would have to be it.

Fortunately Sky is not a bad traveller - other than she cries - so a long journey won't bother her too much.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 08, 2016, 14:36:55 PM
That's encouraging news.  I think I'd be inclined to opt for the free consultation of the X-rays. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on July 08, 2016, 14:39:46 PM
me too, great that they will do that
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 08, 2016, 16:24:51 PM
That is good news. ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 08, 2016, 16:57:39 PM
It was very kind of them to make that offer and more than I ever expected.

Now have to ask my vet without offending them!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: heather sullivan on July 08, 2016, 20:38:21 PM
I am sure your vet won't be offended, they are not specialists like Noel is and have obviously done as much as they can. It is definitely worth them looking at Sky's x-rays for their opinion, as being specialists they may be able to offer something for her? and if they can't well at least you have tried :Luv: :Luv
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 08, 2016, 20:54:53 PM
Any decent vet, which I am sure that Sky's is, would be only too happy to help an animal in their care, whoever provides it.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 09, 2016, 11:24:32 AM
Been to my vets this morning and they were lovely.  They said they do referrals for second opinions all the time and they would do the same in my position.

I still feel guilty but Sky can't do it for herself so I have to.

They will send them on Monday so hopefully will know something next week.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 09, 2016, 12:42:49 PM
That is excellent news, I really hope that there is a treatment for her. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 09, 2016, 13:06:22 PM
Am so pleased about your vet's reaction.  Really good result. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on July 09, 2016, 17:45:57 PM
I think that's (one of)  the signs of a good vet. They are clearly more interested in the well being of Sky than in any misplaced professional pride  ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 09, 2016, 17:49:31 PM
Absolutely  ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 12, 2016, 14:58:44 PM
Crikey, this is worse than dealing with the NHS for my own back problems!!

My vets completely disregarded my request to send the Xrays to Fitzpatricks and have referred to somewhere closer to home for a second opinion!

 :censored:

Don't get me wrong, it's obviously a lot closer to home and therefore easier to get to and I have looked at their website and the vet I would be seeing does have interest in spinal surgery. However, the point of sending them to Fitzpatricks was so they could look at them and see if they believe the same as my vet - that there is nothing to be done - and that I truly believe Fitzpatricks to be one of the top hospitals (rightly or wrongly). I really don't want to have to put Sky through the stress of travel and more tests if the ultimate answer is going to be the same.

I've left it with the vets to get back to me.  No idea what to do next.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 12, 2016, 16:24:11 PM
How bl**dy annoying, I think I would put it in writing to them saying that you explicitly requested Fitzpatricks and please to forward the x-rays to the place requested. It is up to you who you want the referral to go. You don't have to be rude, just firm.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on July 12, 2016, 16:28:51 PM
I agree, would be different if you asked for a referral
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 12, 2016, 17:04:34 PM
Spoken to the vet now - he had nothing to do with it all so was a bit bamboozled!  But, they are now sending the xrays to Fitzpatricks - hopefully! I did make it clear I hadn't any objection particularly to going the more local referal unit - to be honest a 4 1/2 hour journey doesn't appeal to me especially when it wouldn't just be once - but the whole point of this was to get the second opinion without putting her through travel and xrays if the end result would be the same.

I'm keeping hold of the appointment for next Thursday (if I can get time off work) - will see what happens once xrays have been looked at.

Never had so much fussing before at a vet!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 12, 2016, 17:26:43 PM
It may well be, subject to what Fitzpatricks suggest, the local referral centre could be the place where treatment could be undertaken.  You did well to stick to your guns.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 13, 2016, 13:11:44 PM
I think I'm in danger of being neurotic!!!   :innocent:

Done some checking about who we have been referred to and there is just something about the particular vet that I don't like and I don't know how unreasonable I'm being!  I've run it by a couple of non-neurotic cat people and they have said the same - but I don't know if I've led them to the same conclusion as me. I can't put much on here as it could possibly identify them and I don't want that!

Can just see me going back to my vets after everything else and saying that I want a referal to a different place. Just because they are local doesn't mean they will be the best for her.  I know I'm a paying customer and everything but I can just see me getting a worry-wart note put on my account!!!!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 13, 2016, 13:18:00 PM
You are not only a paying customer, but you are a concerned owner.  Surely you have a right to contribute to how your cat is examined, where, and what treatment plans are available? 

Always trust your gut instinct.  It was developed to prevent us from being eaten by dinosaurs with tiny paws, and it's done us pretty well down the millennia.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on July 13, 2016, 13:22:04 PM
You are not only a paying customer, but you are a concerned owner.  Surely you have a right to contribute to how your cat is examined, where, and what treatment plans are available? 

Always trust your gut instinct.  It was developed to prevent us from being eaten by dinosaurs with tiny paws, and it's done us pretty well down the millennia.   :hug:

I absolutely agree. Also, you want to know that you are doing your utmost to get Sky the best possible treatment. No point in seeing someone if you gut is going to be telling you not to trust them!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 13, 2016, 16:45:50 PM
Better a worry wort than blase. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 13, 2016, 22:48:07 PM
Go with your instinct you dont want to look back and reget what happens  :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 14, 2016, 12:17:48 PM
Neurotic or not, I really don't want to go this place.   I think part of it is that the vet has just chosen it - there has been no consultation and no checking about what is the best place for her - it's just the referal unit that they always use.  To me that isn't good enough - I have to be sure she is going to the most appropriate place.

So, I've found a new place that is still within an hour and more importantly, they do have spinal specialists so I have a little more confidence in them.  And someone at work has used them and said she couldn't fault them.

I don't think I will wait for Fitzpatricks - at this moment I don't have faith my vet would pass on the information correctly anyway!!!

Edited to add - thanks for all the support and listening to my paranoia!!!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 14, 2016, 12:35:13 PM
Good luck with the investigations.   :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 14, 2016, 16:14:34 PM
Hope all goes well  :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on July 14, 2016, 16:23:43 PM
 :crossed: that things will go well for Sky  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 14, 2016, 23:48:54 PM
Just go with what you think is best for Sky, no-one on here is going to judge you for doing what you think is best for her, if your gut is telling you something isn't right then it probably isn't.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 15, 2016, 12:29:38 PM
My vet and I are on a collision course!

Rang this morning as my insurance company haven't had the claim yet (and it was last Tuesday when I was in the vets) and also to request a referal to where I want to go.  She really wasn't happy that I didn't want to use the place they have referred to - well, she said I will have to ask the vet about this.  I said you can ask the vet all you like but I am not going to where you have referred me, I want to go to this place...... she then said that they would have to send all her details to the new place.....well, yes but she would have to have done that for the original referal so what's the problem?  Towards the end of it she did grudgingly say it was my choice as to where I go......but she will still have to ask the vet!

I kinda got the impression that maybe they get some sort of "finders fee" if they refer their cases to the original place and didn't want to lose it.  To me it is unacceptable - I want to go to the most appropriate place.

At the end of all this I don't think she will be going back there!  They are beginning to wind me up!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 15, 2016, 13:02:08 PM
If they come across as being reluctant then it's worth asking the question whether referral is subject to payment of commission, or whether it's an issue with professional etiquette.   Either would be acceptable if they simply told you, but to express reluctance without you being clear as to why is more of a concern.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 15, 2016, 15:07:51 PM
I think they are being totally unreasonable and are now causing unacceptable delays........I would be threatening to sue them if Sky gets any worse or the lack of referal cuases her a problem.............that got my current vets moving when Napoleon needed to go there as an emergency and the duty vet was saying no, which immediately changed to a yes!

He was registered at two vets and had never been to them but they had 24 hour cover and he had had 2 seizures in the car trying to get him home and I was seething and mobile battery dying. I was very close to them parked but about 12 miles from home.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 15, 2016, 16:52:41 PM
I think they are being totally unreasonable and are now causing unacceptable delays........I would be threatening to sue them if Sky gets any worse or the lack of referal cuases her a problem.............that got my current vets moving when Napoleon needed to go there as an emergency and the duty vet was saying no, which immediately changed to a yes!

He was registered at two vets and had never been to them but they had 24 hour cover and he had had 2 seizures in the car trying to get him home and I was seething and mobile battery dying. I was very close to them parked but about 12 miles from home.

That's awful. :( I don't see why there is such a problem with referals, it isn't like it is going to cost the vet.

My vet didn't ring but I did get a referal.   :wow:  The soonest appointment is September........ :Crazy: :Crazy:  I've taken it and see it as a good sign that they are obviously popular so know what they are doing. :)  I will tell them I will take any cancellations and if she gets worse they could see her as an emergency.   



Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 15, 2016, 17:58:38 PM
So pleased you have the referal and the chance to get in sooner  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 15, 2016, 18:37:49 PM
That's great news!   ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 26, 2016, 22:21:03 PM
I bought some heavy duty steps to help Sky get up and down off the bed so she doesn't have to jump. She has studiously ignored them even though she is now beginning to really struggle getting on the bed (getting off is fine, getting up her back legs don't seem to co-ordinate).

Tonight we had a small victory.....she used them to get off the bed. A little bit by accident as the duvet was over the top step and she was walking along the bed and found herself on the steps.  She hesitated but I persuaded her down the next one by letting her lick my hand (I moved it away to get her walking forward). She then sat down on one of them and got lots of fussing before finishing them off.

I'm hoping she will now remember this and use them to up onto the bed.  She is getting worse now at jumping - her back legs don't seem to move how she wants them to and she really has to pull herself up onto places with her front legs.  Sometimes she falls off which isn't good.

To get a sooner appointment I have to speak with my vet.......
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 26, 2016, 22:52:56 PM
Misa would not use the stool he uses in the garden in the house to get onto the sofa.....he is stillm using it out there to get on the lounger.

I hope you can get an earlier appt  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 27, 2016, 07:10:50 AM
Am glad Sky has figured out the steps can aid her getting to places she wants to go, bless her.  Also hoping that you'll be able to get a sooner appointment than anticipated.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 27, 2016, 11:00:45 AM
So pleased you got her referral through at last, I hope you can get a cancellation for her to be seen sooner. :hug:, maybe if she is still reluctant to use the steps you could tempt her up with chicken morsels, that's how I trained reluctant cats to use the cat flap.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on July 27, 2016, 22:33:42 PM
We have up as well as down now  :yayyy: :yayyy: :yayyy:

And then to spite me and to prove she can, she jumps off the bed without using the steps and then back onto it later!  :rofl:

Cats  :innocent:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on July 28, 2016, 12:21:49 PM
Great  :evillaugh: :evillaugh: :evillaugh:

Devil cats!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on July 28, 2016, 17:23:24 PM
Glad to hear that she is doing well  ;D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on July 28, 2016, 17:56:47 PM
Same as children, just have to make a liar out of you :rofl:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on July 29, 2016, 07:00:00 AM
Same as children, just have to make a liar out of you :rofl:

Ain't that the truth.....  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on August 02, 2016, 19:54:00 PM
Finally got my insurance claim settled - after 3 weeks of the vet saying they had sent the information needed to the insurance company!  I eventually picked up her notes and scanned them to the insurance company myself - they had them within 5 minutes of me sending them yet never received them from my vets.......

Anyway, her claim has been settled as "lethargy"....... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:  Poor Sky, forever registered as lethargic.

I think I will have to email them to make sure they are aware that there will be follow up appts and it isn't lethargy really. 

Oh, and Robbie now uses the steps as he's a lazy boy cat :D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on August 02, 2016, 20:44:19 PM
Doesn't really matter what label she has as long as they pay for the bulk of her treatment. :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on August 30, 2016, 20:51:32 PM
2 more weeks to go - checked with the referal place and they haven't had any xrays from my vet at all so I have to go them to find out why not. Fortunately Robbie needs vacinations so I can ask them whilst I'm there.

Sky is definitely deteriorating - I have started a diary (which is pretty much this thread really) to keep an eye on things - it's so easy for things to become "normal" that I was losing track of when things were happening - for instance, she now sits with one leg out at an angle; when she's eating one of her legs "slides" away from her like she can't control it properly - litte things that make a bigger picture.  She hardly ever sits up now - always lies down on one side.  There are times when she looks so fed up with life and others she is bright as a button (relatively speaking). I still don't think she is bad enough to be treated as an emergency, I just hope they can do something for her.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on August 30, 2016, 20:56:00 PM
I'm so sorry that your darling girl doesn't seem to be so well  :(
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: heather sullivan on August 30, 2016, 22:34:20 PM
My geriatric cat (21) has arthritis in her back knee, she sits with her leg sticking out. Hope they can find out what is wrong with Skye and help her :)
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on August 31, 2016, 06:47:45 AM
Definitely worth chasing them up.  Poor Sky, bless her paws. 

I find this forum is invaluable sometimes as a form of diary-keeping.  As you say, when things become "the new norm" it doesn't always mean it's "normal" behavior, just that we adapt to seeing it. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Kay and Penny on August 31, 2016, 13:33:28 PM
I don't want to worry you, but your description of how Sky sits and walks was exactly how Trigger was, and in his case it was caused by a tumour in his pelvic area
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 02, 2016, 21:05:46 PM
Thanks everyone. The vet diagnosed as bone spurs with nothing to be done (arthritis really) - the bone spurs touching nerves.

The second opinion is in a couple of weeks and today the vets have sent me her xrays.  She is proof you can look fat in xrays :D

They seemed clearer at the surgery - i think because they were bigger and the vet was pointing things out.  However, on the third picture you can see the bone growth towards the tail area.  I find the second picture more interesting as one of the vertebrae looks out of position completely.

Supervet last night was fascinating - spinal surgery.  He is my back up plan :D
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 02, 2016, 21:19:08 PM
I don't want to worry you, but your description of how Sky sits and walks was exactly how Trigger was, and in his case it was caused by a tumour in his pelvic area

To be honest I was expecting that to be the diagnosis for her.  She is definitely getting worse - previously when she was coming upstairs slowly she was really quiet. Now she's scrabbling more so it is getting harder for her.  Going to have to look at confining her downstairs I think but she does love to be on a bed.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: heather sullivan on September 02, 2016, 23:01:28 PM
I love looking at x-rays (being an ex med secretary) but yes she does look rather plump ;D  At least they didn't find anything too nasty, and maybe they can now move on with a plan. Bone spurs are painful - I have just had shoulder surgery which included shaving bone spurs off - still in a sling 5 weeks later, can't drive, swim or ride my horse. Still very painful.  Prob suffer more as I am getting on :evillaugh: I don't see why they can't shave her bone spurs off?
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 09, 2016, 17:56:14 PM
Initial internet research has suggested shaving bone spurs aren't succesful - I presume they grow back.

On countdown now and it can't come soon enough.  A couple of times today she has really wailed for no reason - she very occasionally does this when she wants to find you without looking - and has pood on the floor . I suspect it wasn't an accident - it was close enough to the litter box for it not to have been an accident if that make sense. Not mad with her - it's her only way really to show us there is a problem as she doesn't know that we are having to wait to deal with it.

She is still scrabbling upstairs - can't face taking that pleasure away from her! 

If nothing can be done I am going to have to seriously consider her quality of life. I think she is now beginning to feel some pain and beginning to suffer so it will be time to look at starting her on medication I think.  I don't think she is ready to give up on life at the moment but if there is nothing to be done and deterioration continues at the same speed then I suspect within 6 months she won't be able to walk.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on September 09, 2016, 23:32:35 PM
Didn't you say that Noel Fitzpatrick could see her this month? So sorry to hear that she is deteriorating so quickly :care: :care: :care:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 10, 2016, 19:05:17 PM
Noel is my absolute last resort - simply because of the distance involved.   I really hope that there is something can be done for her at the vets on Thursday - I'm dreading to think how much it will cost - it's £250 for a consultation! I also have to pay 15% of any treatment/investigative work due to her age so it could be a very expensive trip as I'm sure they will want to scan her again.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 10, 2016, 19:36:19 PM
I do hope this vet can do something to get Sky out of pain very soon!  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Rosella moggy on September 10, 2016, 20:43:27 PM
[quote ]
On countdown now and it can't come soon enough.  A couple of times today she has really wailed ... I think she is now beginning to feel some pain and beginning to suffer so it will be time to look at starting her on medication I think. [/quote]

Have I missed something?  Why do you have to wait till Thursday?
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 10, 2016, 21:04:24 PM
Thursday is her second opinion at a vet hospital/referal centre after my vet said there was no treatment for her.  It's been a 2 month wait during which she has been deteriorating - they would have seen her sooner if it had been an emergency but she has been okay for the most part. She's been deteriorating but it's been gradual and there haven't been any real personality changes from it.  For the last week or so she is beginning to look like she is struggling.  If I hadn't been going this week I would be rining them to see if she could get an earlier appointment.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Rosella moggy on September 10, 2016, 22:24:01 PM
Is there any reason she can't have pain relief meanwhile? It must be so very difficult watching her struggle without being able to give her pain relief  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 10, 2016, 22:32:21 PM
She doesn't seem in outright pain, it's more that she is not herself and looks in discomfort more than pain. If I thought she was really suffering with pain i would get something - but the side effects of the medication I have already been told can be horrendous and cause her other problems with kidneys and they only want to put her on medication as a real last resort.  Her suffering is in her not being able to do things like jumping on beds or sitting upright.

I've just realised, she has never had any blood tests run in conjunction with this problem.  I was looking up muscle weakness in cats and low phosphorus was mentioned but also feline diabetes - it was this paragraph on a site about diabetic neuropathy that made me wonder if indeed it is something that is not what my vet has said:

An affected femoral nerve can lead to a plantigrade gait, which is walking on the whole sole of the foot (e.g., like rabbits, bears, and people). In cats, this gait takes the shape of walking on hocks (heels), and the tarsal joints and nerves of the hind legs are progressively damaged, leading to pain, numbness, and weakness or paralysis. The first sign of neuropathy in cats is often weak hind legs. As the condition progresses, the cat won't be able to stand on its toes. Jumping will become increasingly difficult until it's impossible. Eventually, the cat's legs will seem to slip out from under it, and the cat will be unable to walk. These are signs of motor and sensory nerve damage

That is exactly the progress that Sky has had.  There's no doubt she has the bone spurs but I am going to ask if this hospital can run blood tests on her to rule out anything else.  She has been overweight for years (chronically at times) and so has had a higher risk of diabetes. I can't believe that she hasn't had tests and I didn't pick up on this.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on September 15, 2016, 15:26:17 PM
was it today that you went?
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 15, 2016, 15:35:01 PM
Another vet, a different diagnosis!

This vet thinks it's a torn cruciate ligament.  The bone spurs/spinal issues are there but he doesn't think it is necessarily a nerve problem as she was responsive when he did the nerve tests.  She has been given metacam to try again and has to have 2 weeks on that - if she's no better she will go back to them (they didn't do any xrays or anything else). If she improves off the metacam then she will stay on that. 

She was such a good girl - I was holding her front end and he was really manipulating her legs.  He did say at one point for me to be careful of her biting - I said I would be very surprised if she bit. The worst thing she did was put her claws in my arm (but only gently!) - there was no hissing, no crying, no biting.  She just wiggled to get away. I suppose that in a way makes it hard for him to see which bit of her is really hurting as she just wasn't letting him know.

The only thing I am concerned at is she has lost more weight - don't get me wrong, she does need to lose weight, but I just don't know how she is doing it!  She is so inactive she makes me look energetic!!!  She is now 4.9kg which is 400g less than she was 2 months ago and she is eating well.   I'm going to take her back to my vets I think in a couple of months (if I don't have to take her back in the meantime) and get her reweighed again. May be worthwhile having her bloods checked to make sure there is nothing underlying.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on September 15, 2016, 15:38:44 PM
is that something that will repair?  does seem odd about the weight, maybe you can keep an eye on her weight at home
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 15, 2016, 15:46:01 PM
They don't repair as such but from how he described it there is bonegrowth around which helps it recover and stabilise but will take about 6 months - I think there will always be some degree of lameness and struggling to do things but they compensate in other ways.  There is surgery available but they try to avoid that really.  If there is no improvement through metacam then they will look again.  Most of the time she doesn't walk as if she is lame - it is generally the jumping and steps - he described that  as when most of the power is generated and hurts her most. Normal walking doesn't require sudden movement.

Starting her on metacam tonight and hoping it will work for her :)
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on September 15, 2016, 16:17:13 PM
at least the metacam should make her a bit more comfortable
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on September 15, 2016, 18:42:19 PM
Sending much love your way  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 15, 2016, 21:39:35 PM
Sending much love your way  :hug:

and from me too  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: heather sullivan on September 16, 2016, 21:27:30 PM
that diagnosis sounds better then, if it will heal within 6 months? :) might be worth having bloods done later on to check her for thyroid problems etc. She sounds such a lovely cat, most cats in pain being manipulated by a vet would put up a fight I know 2 of mine would :naughty:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 17, 2016, 20:24:19 PM
Thanks for all your support :)  Sky is on her metacam but so far not showing any improvement - I know it's only 3 days but I want the magic wand cure  :rofl: :rofl:  She is being a little bit more social but movement wise there is no difference.

that diagnosis sounds better then, if it will heal within 6 months? :) might be worth having bloods done later on to check her for thyroid problems etc. She sounds such a lovely cat, most cats in pain being manipulated by a vet would put up a fight I know 2 of mine would :naughty:

Realistically we are now 2 1/2 months in from when the problems started and she has been deteriorating. Hopefully it is just because of pain and now she is on metacam she will improve.

I couldn't belive how good she was - there was just no sign whatsover that she had any pain from anywhere - just some discomfort.

I think to satisfy myself I'm going to be neurotic and ask for bloods to be done by my vet, just to be sure.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on September 17, 2016, 22:55:21 PM
I would.  No neurosis about it :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on September 19, 2016, 16:22:44 PM
how is she now
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 19, 2016, 17:43:45 PM
She is a little brighter in herself and looks happier but there has been no visible improvement in her jumping or getting up the stairs.  The vet did say it could take a little while for the metacam to get in her system and create a build up. She has had 5 doses of it now.  If she doesn't improve she will go back and get scanned but I am erring more towards the bloods - I was going to say it can't hurt to have them done but it obviously will hurt her! 

I just worry that I'm putting her through a battery of tests and focusing on it being a mechanical problem when it may not be. 

To be fair to both vets - initially she didn't present with symptoms other than struggling on stairs and jumping and the referal vet was a referal for orthopedic.  I think I have to be sure we're not overlooking an obvious thing.  It could be that she has a problem with her cruciate and her spine but really neither of them is causing her problem.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 19, 2016, 20:02:15 PM
This is the stairs tonight.  Still struggling.

https://youtu.be/bLioUosBPbg
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 19, 2016, 20:49:12 PM
Oh bless her! She is struggling, isn't she?  :(
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 19, 2016, 21:10:12 PM
Yes but she is still determined and I can't take that away from her.  She wants to be upstairs so will make sure she gets there.  It's now 3 months since she started like this and no improvement at all.

I will call my vet tomorrow to ask about bloods and if they think it is worth it.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on September 20, 2016, 08:46:25 AM
Good luck for today, and hope your call to the Vet will help clarify your thoughts.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 20, 2016, 09:49:47 AM
She;s going in on Thursday night - poor love will hate me!  I know I have to stop being neurotic but I can't get it out of my head that she hasn't had any blood tests and having been overweight she is prime candidate really for diabetes especially. They do them in house so will hopefully come back quickly.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on September 20, 2016, 10:26:09 AM
I really hope you get some answers you feel comfortable with.  I know we have often doubted our vets (and actually doctors) and been vindicated nobody knows her like you do
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on September 20, 2016, 13:07:33 PM
I would go with gut instinct too.  If you didn't and something happened, you'd beat yourself up over it.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 20, 2016, 15:20:40 PM
I would go with gut instinct too.  If you didn't and something happened, you'd beat yourself up over it.   :hug:

I agree with this absolutely!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on September 21, 2016, 00:26:18 AM
I agree too, to the vet she is going to be one of many presenting. You know her and, bless her, she is struggling. :care: :care: :care:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 21, 2016, 11:07:29 AM
Had to call the referal place today.  She has gone very lethargic, getting very runny poos and isn't eating much.  All side effects of metacam and seem to remember she had similar issues last time she was on it.  If she doesn't eat she is ill.  Vet will call back tomorrow to see if she is to stay on it - he's not on today and she's had her dose today already. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on September 21, 2016, 23:07:48 PM
Oh Honey, :hug: :hug: :hug:, so worrying for you :care: :care: :care:, nothing I can do except offer sympathy and positive vibes for your poor Baby.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on September 22, 2016, 08:05:50 AM
How's Sky today?   :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 22, 2016, 11:09:17 AM
Still off her food and looking sad.  Got to keep her off metacam. Hopefully bloods will come up with something as she isn't happy.   Second vet doesn't really want to see her unless we want to go ahead with an op for her but as I'm still not convinced I'm not going with that.  If she couldn't walk then maybe I would. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 22, 2016, 16:34:43 PM
So sorry to hear that your girl is still unwell and miserable  :(  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 22, 2016, 19:08:24 PM
Feeling justified. Bloods taken - was an angel.  Initial check was that blood sugar level us high at 23.2.  Full bloods will be analysed but initial thought is diabetes.

Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: heather sullivan on September 22, 2016, 22:37:49 PM
Worth doing the bloods then after all. Hopefully now they can treat her and she will feel better soon. :Luv:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on September 23, 2016, 07:11:37 AM
Good move getting the bloods done.  See?  You weren't over-reacting.   :hug: :hug:

Much love to you both this morning.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 23, 2016, 07:44:55 AM
Thanks. It's bittersweet in a way because I don't want her to have diabetes, or any other illness it may show up, but it's easier if she does  (and if it's a cause of her current problems!) as it is probably easier to treat.

We'll know for sure in about a week but I'm still expecting the result to be the same - I've suspected it for a couple of weeks.  She did say that her sugars could be high as a result of stress of the vets visit but that she didn't appear to be under any real stress. They are doing a test on her blood that shows longstanding sugar content - it's all very clever and technical.

She has also lost another 100g in a week - other than the last couple of days she's been eating fine so we really need to work out what is happening with that.

Poor Sky, it's a good job she travels okay as I suspect there could be a few more trips in her future!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on September 23, 2016, 08:30:48 AM
No, of course you don't treasure.  :hug:  Fully understand that.  But, fore-warned is fore-armed, and once you know what it is you're facing, it's often easier to choose your strategy, and take what steps are available.

Sending Sky a Super-Snoozle, jam packed with feel good vibes.   
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 23, 2016, 14:40:41 PM
Sending you both lots of love   :care:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 25, 2016, 08:58:15 AM
Anyone know how long it takes for metacam to get out the system?

She's been without it now for 3 days and isn't really improving.  She eats but compared to previously it isn't very much (will help with weight loss I guess!) - she usually has 4 good meals a day, yesterday it was one and I think it was only because it was Applaws!  She had a tiny bit of supper as well but nothing like normal.  She is very subdued as well.

This morning she has had some breakfast but I don't think she would have been bothered if there wasn't any!

Really hoping the bloods come back soon and don't take a week - I had forgotten I'm away on Friday and Saturday which can't be cancelled (sorting my own back problems out) so mum is going to have to look after here and monitor her.  Would rather I was there but can't be helped.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: CarolM (Wendolene) on September 25, 2016, 09:50:28 AM
Based on it's metabolic profile the bulk of  should be out of the system within 2 to 3 days, with 75% of the administered dose iexcreted via the faeces.  I'm not sure what the mechanism of the GI side effects is but if it's a direct irritant effect on the GI membranes ( (rather than a response to levels of metacam in the blood) then the side effects could persist  for some time after all the drug has been excreted.  Hope she picks up soon.  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 25, 2016, 12:33:57 PM
Thanks, that really helps - she is a regular pooer but not an often pooer if that makes sense so it could take longer to get out the system than I expected.  She has just got up for some ham for lunch which she hasn't done for a few days so could be picking up :)
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 27, 2016, 13:03:00 PM
Good news is we're eating again and much brighter so metacam must be fully out.

Medium good news is definitely diabetes so she will have to learn to accept daily injections and initial home blood testing. She is a good natured cat - extremely good natured - so hopefully she will adjust well to them. I have to go with her on Thursday to learn how to do it.  I'm really pinning my hopes on the diabetes being the cause of her hind leg weakness so hope to see some improvement with that as well but that could take time. If it doesn't improve it is still a secondary concern to getting her stabalised.

I've been offered some special diet food but I would rather do research and get something that isn't a special vet food - she never really liked the lack of variety when previously on it.

So a new journey begins.

So glad I went for the bloods.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on September 27, 2016, 13:05:06 PM
I'm sorry to hear it is diabetes but happy that the niggle in the back of your mind paid off, I'm not sure about animal diabetes but in humans the needles are very fine and hopefully it won't be too traumatic for either of you
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 27, 2016, 13:32:35 PM
Sorry to hear that your lovely girl has diabetes  :( but very glad that you now have some answers and know what the next steps will be  :)

Diabetes can cause muscle loss/weakness, so that fits the picture.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 27, 2016, 13:48:25 PM
Daft as it sounds, I'm really relieved. I do trust the vets but was never comfortable with the cruciate ligament diagnosis from the second vet and only went there as the first said it was spinal and untreatable. 

It really does go to show that you should follow instinct even if you think you are neurotic!

I am relieved as it can be treated - yes she will be on medication probably for the rest of her life but she will be treatable and will have a good life once she is stable.  Her kidney levels and liver enzymes were slightly raised but vet isn't concerned on that.  If the diabetes is causing diabetic neuropathy then the hind leg weakness should improve in 6-12 months I think it was.

I want to thank you all for your support and reassuring me I'm not totally crazy!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 27, 2016, 15:09:20 PM
No, you're not totally crazy  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Liz on September 27, 2016, 21:32:36 PM
I have had 3 Diabetics, Tiger feral on 3 and 3 units, HRH Princess Sweetie in 2 and 1 and Miss Millie on 5 and 5, we never did home testing with the first one being feral and got them stable and tested at the vets twice a year, we also never changed foods being a multi household not worth the effort and nobody ate the diabetic food, we also used treats to keep them sat in one place for injections and Tiger the feral was a star he got the first one at 7am and was home for his cheese at 7pm everyday

Good luck on your journey x
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on September 29, 2016, 20:13:43 PM
I'm mildly scared about these injections!  I can't seem to scruff her enough to get the needle in properly - fortunately she is a super cat and isn't bothering at all at my efforts (don't worry I'm not actually injecting her at the moment!).  I tried in the vets with a water solution and hurt her the first time. Second time I managed okay but now been let loose to manage!  I'm not starting until Sunday night as I'm away until then and mum isn't confident at all in doing it.  I don't think I will have a problem once we're started and I'm sure I will be able to do it single handed but these first few times I'm dreading.....

Monday night is learning how to do the blood from ear or paw.....definitely ear I think as one thing she doesn't like is having her paws touched.

At the moment I'm practising scruffing her and really not doing well - she is just treating it as if I'm giving her cuddles!  Hope she stays like that when she is getting injected twice a day.

Good job I don't have much of a social life but the lie ins at weekend are out the window and her mealtimes have to be slightly adjusted to make sure she is fully fed before she gets her dose.

Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on September 29, 2016, 22:13:29 PM
I'm sure you will soon get used to the injections and bloodtests. I remember my first (human) injection was really scary but it didn't stay that way for long!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 03, 2016, 13:05:53 PM
2 injections done and no problem    ;D The only thing I can't manage to do is after I have injected her I'm supposed to pull back the plunger slightly to see if there is any blood in it and I can't manage to do it for some reason. So I've injected the insulin and hoped for the best!  Not sure I would be as confident with a wriggly cat but she just sits there and waits for me to do it :)

She is as good as I expect her to be, doesn't flinch and doesn't seem to notice that I am doing horrible things to her.   Tonight will see if it is making any difference - though is probably too early to see. 
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on October 03, 2016, 14:00:18 PM
 :hug: :hug:  Got fingers crossed you'll notice an improvement within the first few days.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 03, 2016, 18:02:31 PM
She was holding onto her blood tonight so couldn't check!  Had her ears prodded about 10 times and not even a pinprick of blood.  Told the vet to stop doing it in the end as she just wasn't getting anywhere. 

I've to try again on Sunday - every hour for the glucose curve. Going to look on YouTube to see if there is a different way. 

She's still an angel but was getting fed up!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on October 03, 2016, 19:08:16 PM
Bless her furry little paws!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 04, 2016, 18:54:08 PM
She is showing signs of intolerance for the bloods.  Tried on and off all day and cannot get anything from her and she's getting fed up.  I've explored the Internet and there isn't any site that says you take blood like I've been shown - even the instructions on the box don't show it that way.  The nurse said I had to go in her ear and prick the raised bits.  Nothing.  Internet says to go for the marginal vein.  I tried that and hurt her so suspect the needle is wrong for that way  (if that is possible!).

Booked in again on Thursday to try again.

She is bit enjoying this but is easy to do the injections.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on October 05, 2016, 07:39:02 AM
If the way you were shown isn't working for you, the vet needs to be able to give you an alternative, so push them for one.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 05, 2016, 20:54:51 PM
I have blood  :Crazy:

She wasn't impressed but managed to get blood out of her so I've cancelled the appt tomorrow - I'm not keep practicing as will only stress her but I know I can do it.

Her sugars were at 12.2 which still seems high but better than 23.2!  Glucose curve on Sunday - blood testing every hour........dreading it!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on October 06, 2016, 06:38:19 AM
Yes, I can understand why you'd be dreading it, but work with your successes first of all.    :hug:  :)
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 08, 2016, 01:39:48 AM
She's going to be the death of me!  I went against my instinct tonight and almost paid the price.  She's been a little bit subdued for a few days - a bit up and down which I would expect as her body becomes used to the insulin.  Last night she didn't come and greet me when I came home from work - this is totally out of character for her.  She was eating fine so gave her injections and that was that. Today she has been quiet again apparently - has eaten but not really gone out of her way to get food.

She just didn't seem well - nothing could put my finger on but she just seemed off.   I was going to try and get some blood before giving her her insulin but she perked up for her tea and as I was on my own and would struggle I didn't bother (I don't normally try and take blood before she gets her injections but probably should now......).  I struggled with the injection for some reason and thought I had hurt her as she struggled a little bit.  She then slept the rest of the night (not unusual for her but with hindsight she was a little limp).

Ate supper normally but then just sat on the kitchen floor just staring into space which was odd - she looked at me when I spoke to her but didn't interact. Usually she would go straight to bed - creature of habit.  I took her blood (and I sadly hurt her in the process so really need to get a better way of doing it!) and the machine beeped at me - it only does that if there is a problem. She had gone hypo with sugars at 2.2. :o

Phone call and dash to emergency vet (after giving her honey). She was at 3.1 in the vets but had to get to 4 before she would be released.  Managed to hit the 4 so she is back home and hopefully not at immediate risk.  Not giving her her shot tomorrow and having to sort out a different treatment plan for her - may get them to look after her for a few days to get her regulated as I can't go through that again.

I'm just annoyed with myself for not trusting myself - I shouldn't have done tonight's insulin without testing her when I thought she wasn't right.

She's a bit brighter now but need to keep an eye on her!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on October 08, 2016, 06:21:30 AM
Don't be harsh on yourself.  This is totally uncharted territory for you both, and you will come to trust your gut instinct.  Sending soothing vibes for Skye xxxx
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 08, 2016, 07:28:31 AM
Don't be harsh on yourself.  This is totally uncharted territory for you both, and you will come to trust your gut instinct.  Sending soothing vibes for Skye xxxx

I know, I'm just annoyed with myself.  Was too focused on not missing a dose as she is supposedly having a blood curve on Sunday rather than the consequences of her having it when she is not well.

She's brighter this morning than she's been for a few days - wanting affection and being purry.  Not giving her insulin today at all - sod the curve!  I have to ring the vet later to see what to do with her but I am really leaning towards letting them look after her for a few days to get her on the right doseage.  Sod's law I have to go somewhere today so can't take her in but I know she will be fine at home and if she has to go in I  have someone who can take her. 

Thank goodness for insurance! I almost cancelled it last year but so glad I kept it going!!
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 09, 2016, 01:26:33 AM
SORRY TO HEAR SKY IS DIABETICS BUT THANK GOODNSS SHE IS FAIRLY PLACID.

BEING A DIABETICS I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOU AND SOUNDS LIKE THE INSULIN DOSE IS TOO HIGH OR TOO OFTEN BUT IF LIKE A HUMAN IT WILL CHANGE DEPENDING ON WHAT AND HOW MUCH SHE NEEDS.

I USED TO GIVE NAPOLEON IMJECTIONS OF ABS AND WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PULL THE PLUNGER UP!!

GOOD LUCK TO BOTH OF YOU AND HOPE THAT ALL GOES WELL AS YOU BECOME MORE USED TO DOING ALL THIS.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 10, 2016, 10:12:21 AM
Fortunately she's recovered okay.  She had an insulin free day on Saturday and dropped doseage to 2 instead of 5 yesterday.  Vet said 3 but as I can't get blood from her I wasn't risking it.  Tried blood from her paw and nothing.  Going to try again from her ear as I have to be able to monitor her.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on October 10, 2016, 12:08:28 PM
Well done.   :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on October 10, 2016, 12:40:27 PM
its so stressful, I really feel for you  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 10, 2016, 16:26:12 PM
Booked her in to have the vets do her glucose curve on Thursday.   She won't like it and may get high levels if she is stressed but can't keep trying here.  She is losing clumps of fur through stress now.  Keeping her on low dosage until her tests ate done.

If we can't get blood from anywhere we can test her urine but it won't be as regular as bloods as dependant on her performing. :)

Poor Sky.  We are still OK on injections though so half the battle is won.
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 11, 2016, 02:43:58 AM
YES STRESS PUTS UP THE LEVELS BUT SOMETIMES MY FINGERS WILL NOT BLEED SO I CAN IMAGINE HOW HARD IT MUST BE WITH A CAT  :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 13, 2016, 20:53:38 PM
Sky's doing well  :attention: :attention: :attention:

She is to stay on her current dosage and go back in a month for a fructose test which is showing a longer lasting snapshot of how she has got on over a month.

This may not make sense but basically fluorescent green is really bad (dangerous). On the other side black is bad as means glucose is to high. The rest are on a sliding scale of badness!  Dark green is best.  She made it into the dark green range and most was blue so they are very impressed with her.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kCFXU61aTK78S-l-Et1LQZB17o3557O8_V9PLfL3HMg/pubhtml

So proud of my girl :)
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on October 13, 2016, 21:55:37 PM
Good girl Sky!  :gold stars:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Dawn F on October 14, 2016, 09:20:56 AM
great news  :hug:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 15, 2016, 00:28:02 AM
THATS GREAT  ;D ;D

HAD ENOUGH OF SMALL TYPE CANT READ ANYMORE
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on October 15, 2016, 12:22:31 PM
Sorry I haven't been keeping up with this thread with extended holiday etc.

I am pleased that you have finally got a correct diagnosis for Sky, stressful though it has been it does sound as if you are getting on top of it. Hopefully once she is properly stabilised it will get a lot easier, thank goodness she is such a sweetie :Luv:
Title: Re: Vet trip for Sky :(
Post by: Sootyca on October 16, 2016, 19:54:00 PM
After looking at how well she responded to a small dose I'm really surprised we didn't kill  her the first week as she must have really been overdosed on it!   :Crazy:

Started her on a B12 supplement today which is supposed to help reverse the symptoms of diabetic neuropathy - her hind leg weakness.  She has improved over the last week getting up stairs - she has run up half of them, a bit ungainly but still more of a run than a hobble - so I really think we have got to the bottom of what is wrong with her.  The insulin alone should help with the weakness but the B12 could speed it along.

Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on October 16, 2016, 22:45:19 PM
Fingers crossed indeed!
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on October 17, 2016, 08:30:01 AM
This is such good news to read.  Am smiling bigly.   :) :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Dawn F on October 17, 2016, 08:42:51 AM
so glad to hear things are improving  :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on October 17, 2016, 11:59:13 AM
That is such good news, I am smiling too :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 24, 2016, 15:58:33 PM
HOW IS SKY DOING?

I HAVE DIABETIC NEUROPATHY WHICH THEY SAY CANT BE REVERSED............WONDER WHY B12 WOULDNT WORK FOR A HUMAN!

I WOULD LOVE TO BE ABLE TO FEEL MY FEET AGAIN!
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on October 24, 2016, 18:15:20 PM
B12 can be taken by humans - if you are going to try it use the methylcobalamin version as that is the most easily absorbed.  I do take internet sites with a pinch of salt as you don't know what/who is behind them.  B12 methylcobalamin is good for nerve problems.  Even if it doesn't work, the low toxicity means it shouldn't cause any harm.

This from a Podiatry site:

Can Vitamin B12 (Methylcobalamin) Supplementation Have An Impact For Diabetic Neuropathy?

Increasingly, we have identified the role of vitamin B12 in diabetic neuropathy and the need to supplement B12 in the patient with diabetes. Metformin, the most commonly utilized drug for the treatment of diabetes, is associated with worsening of diabetic neuropathy due to the inhibition of folic acid and B12 absorption as a result of the effects of metformin.10

Authors have demonstrated that the malabsorption of B12 and decreased folate levels associated with metformin result in an increased homocysteine level and increased risk of neuropathy.11,12 The administration of B12 may be associated with a reversal of these effects. Homocysteine, when elevated, results in endothelial damage and decreased blood flow to peripheral nerve tissue by thrombus formation within the vascular supply to the nerve. In addition, homocysteine impairs the coupling of arginine and oxygen for the formation of nitric oxide, which is necessary to maintain vascular supply and normal nerve function.13 Cobalamin deficiency, which is exacerbated by the utilization of metformin, increases risk of neuropathy. B12 supplementation can be helpful in the reversal of this deficiency and neuropathy.

In addition to those patients utilizing metformin, researchers have demonstrated that vitamin B12 deficiency and folate deficiency are associated with increased levels of homocysteine, increased oxidative stress secondary to low levels of glutathione, and decreased total antioxidant activity.14 Bailey and colleagues noted that cobalamin deficiency is common and the majority of cases are subclinical.15 In addition, they have suggested that cobalamin serum testing is unreliable.

Solomon demonstrated that functional B12 deficiency is common in the elderly and common in 62 percent of patients with diabetic neuropathy.16 In these patients, normal serum cobalamin levels were associated with markers for B12 deficiency such as elevated levels of methylmalonic acid and the presence of neuropathy. Solomon showed that the administration of cobalamin reversed the effects of functional B12 deficiency in many patients.

Wyckoff and Ganji demonstrated that vitamin B12 deficiency may exist even in the presence of patients who presumably have a "large intake" of B12.17 They further demonstrated that classic markers of B12 deficiency such as macrocytic anemia are not reliable markers for B12 deficiency.

The administration of methylcobalamin at 1,500 mcg per day has been associated with normalization of hemoglobin A1c and improved motor conduction velocity, thereby suggesting that vitamin B12 therapy may be helpful in the reversal of diabetic motor neuropathy, or symptoms such as cramping.18 Others have demonstrated that the administration of methylcobalamin at 1,500 mcg daily was associated over three months with relieved muscle cramping, improvement in motor conduction velocity, reduction in neuropathic pain and improvement in two point discrimination, suggesting nerve regrowth.19

Yaqub and co-workers have demonstrated that methylcobalamin improves not only sensory but autonomic nerve dysfunction symptoms as well.20 With reference to autonomic neuropathy, multiple studies have demonstrated the reversal of autonomic signs, autonomic symptoms and the normalization of autonomic nerve dysfunction with the administration of methylcobalamin.21,22 Authors have also described a potential neuroprotective effect together with reversal of symptomatic sensory and autonomic neuropathy.23-26</size>
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 24, 2016, 22:24:52 PM
THANKS AND WONDER WHY NOBODY MENTIONS THIS! WHEN I ASKED IF ANYTHING COULD BE DONE I WAS TOLD NO! I BADLY BURNT MY TOES LAST YEAR AFTER DROPPING BOILING WATER ON THEM BUT DIDNT FEEL A THING! HOT FEELS COLD TO ME.

I DONT TAKE AND NEVER HAVE TAKEN METAFORMIN BUT IT IS THE DRUG THAT THEY TEND TO PRESCRIBE FIRST.

I WILL HAVE TO LOOK INTO THIS MORE BUT THINK BOTTOM OF LEGS AND FEET GETTING WORSE.

SO HOW IS SKY DOING?
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on October 25, 2016, 14:28:16 PM
Sky is doing much better - I'm never sure I have managed to inject the insulin fully as sometimes her fur is wet from it but I think that is from when I'm withdrawing the needle.  Her back leg weakness is still there but not expecting miracles from that at the moment.

When I look at reviews for B12 I may start taking it for me! :)
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 25, 2016, 15:20:49 PM
I USED TO MANAGE TO GET THE NEEDLE TO GO OUT THE OTHER SIDE AND ALSO INTO ME A COUPLE OG TIMES!

TAKES PRACTICE TO GET IT RIGHT!

I USED TO DO ONE INJECTION FOR 7 DAYS  ABOUT EVERY 2-4 MONTHS SO YOU WILL BE AN EXPERT.

I TOO AM THINKING OF TRYING THE B12............FOUND A GOOD SITE TO BUY FROM
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on October 25, 2016, 15:40:39 PM
Make sure it is the methylcobalamin - the one that absorbs easier
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 25, 2016, 17:20:59 PM
YES IT IS

https://www.naturesbest.co.uk/vitamin-b12-1000-methylcobalamin-p621/#tabreviews

AND HAVE JUST SPOKEN TO THE PHARMACIST AT MY CHEMIST........HAD TO GO IN TO GET MEDS AND HE SAYS NO DANGER AND  THE WORST IS THEY MAY NOT WORK BUT TO LET HIM KNOW HOW IT GOES.

APPARENTLY THE HIGHER DOES 1000MU IS BETTER THAN THE LOWER DOSE AND SHOULD SHOW AT TOP OF THE LINK.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on October 28, 2016, 20:05:49 PM
Sky is bouncing up stairs  ;D  Not all of them, just a few at a time and not all the time, but it's definitely progress.   When she is going up the remaining ones she isn't scrabbling either.

Not brave enough yet for dancing bananas but nearly........
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on October 28, 2016, 20:53:23 PM
Hurrah Sky! Attagirl  ;D
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on October 28, 2016, 21:57:31 PM
TRUELY WONDERFUL  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: heather sullivan on October 29, 2016, 00:09:05 AM
great news :Luv:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 06, 2016, 20:05:47 PM
Sky is up and down at the moment with her leg weakness. Today she is doing really well but for a few days she hasn't been.

Finally managed to get blood out of her before I injected her insulin and she is well within normal range - the advice from the diabetes forum was not to inject her - so I took their advice.  As I haven't enough data to go off as to how she reacts to her insulin dosage, on the number she had she could easily have gone hypo very quickly.  I've tested again now, 2 hours after eating, and she is still in normal range so I'm glad I took their advice.

going to have to test her now before each meal time to be sure.  She is due to have a vets appt on Tuesday for bloods to be taken to test her monthly response so I'm going to quiz them!  I get the feeling I know more than they do though!
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on November 06, 2016, 22:59:09 PM
SADLY YOU PROBABLY DO KNOW MORE THAN THE PROFESSIONALS AND YOU CERTAINLY KNOW YOUR CAT BETTER THAN ANYONE.

I AM AFRAID JUST LIKE HUMAN DOCTORS THEY HAVE BOXES THEY SHOVE PEOPLE IN AND DO NOT LISTEN TO THE PERSON AND DO NOT ACCEPT THAT ALL ARE DIFFERENT.

JUMPING OFF HOBBY HORSE QUICKLY!

HOPE YOU GET GREAT FIGURES FOR THE MONTH, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU WILL  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 08, 2016, 14:49:12 PM
Vet was horrified that I had changed the dose for a couple of times - she would have had a fit if I had said I hadn't actually dosed a few times!!!!  I did explain that I had blood tested before and she was far to low to give her the injection which settled her a little bit, It's not like I'm playing with the dosage for fun!

Anyway, my point was proved - she was 12.2 this morning before feeding and injection.  Had her normal dose and 4 hours later in the vets had dropped to 2.9 which was hypo. She wasn't showing any signs of hypo so came home with instructions that I might like to feed her when I get home......nah, I'll just make her suffer.  If I had given her the dose I was supposed to a couple of days ago it would have been another emergency vet trip no doubt.

I think she needs a new vet that can work with me. :)

Until then, I've to reduce her dosage and do a curve next week as it's possible she is going into remission.  Hope she is ..... could really do with not getting up every day at 6am.  ;D
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on November 08, 2016, 16:07:45 PM
So glad that Sky is improving :Luv:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on November 08, 2016, 16:29:56 PM
Fingers crossed for remission!  :crossed:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 10, 2016, 12:02:41 PM
Results of blood tests are back and she has a gold star for being well regulated :)  have to do another in a month on the lower dose but so far so good.  Just hoping mum will be able to inject whilst I'm away in London for a weekend.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on November 11, 2016, 01:22:38 AM
 :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Dawn F on November 11, 2016, 08:18:04 AM
that is great, its a tricky thing to juggle but sounds like you are doing a very good job
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on November 14, 2016, 07:10:47 AM
How did your weekend go, and how is Sky?
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on November 14, 2016, 08:42:36 AM
YOUARE DOING SO WELL AND ITS HARD TO REGULATE IN A HUMAN ON TABS.I KNOW ABOUT THIS LOL.........IF SHE IS GOINING INTO REMISSION NTHAT WOULD BE GREAT  ;D ;D

HOW ARE HER BACK LEGS?

YES YOUNDEFINATELY NEED A VET WHO IS OPEN MINDED AND WILL WORK WITH YOU..............SENSIBLE DOCTORS ARE HARD TO COME BY AND PROBABLY SAME WITH VETS, ALTHOUGH I AM LUCKY AND HAVE ONE FOR MISA.

AGAIN THE DISCUSSION THE SAME AND ABOUT DOSEAGE , ALTHOUGH HE IS HYPER T. I HAVE STARTED ON HALF VET RECOMMENDED DOSEAGE AND MY SUSPICION IS THAT ITS WORKING BUT ONLY A BLOOD TEST WILL SHOW..........NOT UNTIL 1 DEC GRRRRRRRRRR COS GARETH AWAY. THANK GOODNESS FOR HYPER T GROUP AND NICOLA AND OTHERS.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 14, 2016, 12:15:20 PM
She seems fine but her bloods are creeping up at each test so dose may be too low.  Doing a curve tomorow to see how it is going.....a blood test every hour! 

Her back legs are doing much better but key to that is keeping her bloods low.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on November 14, 2016, 12:36:27 PM
I really take my hat off to you - there's a lot to get your head around, and I agree with Gill - far rather have a vet you can work with.  Whilst vets are knowledgeable, you still know your cat better than anyone.   :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on November 14, 2016, 19:22:09 PM
GOOD LUCK AND HOPE ITS NOT CREEPING UP.

PLEASED HER BACK LEGS ARE DOING BETTER, STILL HOPING B12 WILL HELP EVEN A BIT MINE!
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 15, 2016, 07:29:06 AM
full curve day today so fingers crossed for a good blood-letting day!  Starting at a nice lowish number - I have a real suspicion that her numbers have been sneaking up as she has been on felix agail which has added sugars.  it's a low carb food from what I can work out but the added sugars can be pushing her blood sugars high.  Last night she had applaws pate for her tea which seems to be one of the best complete foods out there for her that's easy to get - this morning her numbers have dropped by 5 units.

Honestly, I know more about diabetes now than I have ever wished to know!  As hard as it is on me sometimes trying to manage it I can't do anything other than my best for her.  Still early days and at some point may get easier as i will know for sure what food affects her.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on November 15, 2016, 18:01:15 PM
How did she go today? :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 15, 2016, 18:32:32 PM
Sick of seeing me approaching her with instruments of torture!   :rofl:

I've emailed the spreadsheet to the vets for their thoughts but I think she has done really well - lots of blue numbers.  The ideal is to get dark green numbers but blue aren't too bad.  I was worried as her numbers before injection have been sneaking higher - she has been mainly on Felix AGAIL which has added sugars so that is going to have to be cut I think.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kCFXU61aTK78S-l-Et1LQZB17o3557O8_V9PLfL3HMg/pubhtml#
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on November 15, 2016, 19:00:42 PM
THATS A SERIOUSLY IMPRESSIVE SPREAD SHEET AND CAN SEE ITS A GOOGLE ONE. IS IT ONE THEY HAVE FOR DIABETIC CATS OR DID YOU MAKE IT?

SADLY I DONT UNDERSTAND IT........IS THERE A KEY FOR THE COLOURS ETC.ASSUMOMG HIGH NIMERS ARE BED AND VERY LOW ARE BAD BIT DONT UNDERSTAND THE NUMBERS IN THE TOP OF EACH COLUMN.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 15, 2016, 19:21:05 PM
Someone designed it for diabetic kitties.  Basically black is terrible - too high blood sugars.  It then goes down in order of seriousness - red, purple, yellow, blue, dark green, bright green - which is hypo territory.  So really we want to keep the numbers in the blue region as that is within the range 120 to 300 mg/dL (according to my insulin manufacturer) - the spreadsheet converts to US numbers from what I input.  Some spreadsheets that they have done has a key but I couldn't find it.  Some numbers in the blue range can still lead to kidney problems apparently

Some very clever people around :)

From the looks of it Sky has done well today - there is usually an initial spike when they eat and then it drops. Usually the lowest point is at +4 hours but she was longer than that.   Hope the vet thinks she is doing okay :)  I'm not doing this curve regularly but it is quite interesting to see it.  Going to carry on testing her bloods before injecting and hope she keeps low :)

Now, need to go and buy some more Applaws pate - just found it and PAH have stopped stocking it. Typical!

Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Liz on November 15, 2016, 20:12:31 PM
I have sort of acquired diabetic number 4 as a national cat charity couldn't get him stable and wanted to PTS so a quick phonecall to me and Donald "where's you trousers" Fluffy joined us on Sunday he is a walking knot but likes to be brushed a=not so keen on the teasing of the knots and the trim to his hind end, but never seen a cat with both front legs shaved and not mentioning his neck not sure what their vets did but we spoke at length to our vets on Sunday night and have gone with 2 and 2 for 3 weeks and we will do a full days curve at the vets then, need to get him settled and in better nick, he loves wet food and RC Rescue biscuits so far

I never do the testing myself and got the other 3 stable in about 6 weeks but having the first one as a feral diabetic testing lost so much skin on this human we said nope we will see what they are like without it and out vets are wonderful if we need advice, he is on 6.30 am and pm much easier for me to do with working and looking after the Clan and we are on day 3 and he is fine he has mastered the stairs and met the inside cats and no0w currently outcold in his fluffy bed in the guest ensuite :)
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on November 15, 2016, 20:36:40 PM
YES THE VITAL FOOD ALWAYS  :censored: VANISHES!

HOPE SHE KEEPS ON DOING WELL  :hug: :hug:

AS YOU SAY SOME VERY CLEVER CLOGS AROUND  :evillaugh:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on November 15, 2016, 22:36:16 PM
I have sort of acquired diabetic number 4 as a national cat charity couldn't get him stable and wanted to PTS so a quick phonecall to me and Donald "where's you trousers" Fluffy joined us on Sunday he is a walking knot but likes to be brushed a=not so keen on the teasing of the knots and the trim to his hind end, but never seen a cat with both front legs shaved and not mentioning his neck not sure what their vets did but we spoke at length to our vets on Sunday night and have gone with 2 and 2 for 3 weeks and we will do a full days curve at the vets then, need to get him settled and in better nick, he loves wet food and RC Rescue biscuits so far

I never do the testing myself and got the other 3 stable in about 6 weeks but having the first one as a feral diabetic testing lost so much skin on this human we said nope we will see what they are like without it and out vets are wonderful if we need advice, he is on 6.30 am and pm much easier for me to do with working and looking after the Clan and we are on day 3 and he is fine he has mastered the stairs and met the inside cats and no0w currently outcold in his fluffy bed in the guest ensuite :)

Love his name and hope you can get him stabilised and how wonderful that he has settled so quickly.  Sky had a front leg shaved as well as her neck/chest when she went in for her initial bloods. No idea why but as she seems to be slow growing her fur back it has made it easier when they have taken more blood out of her.

I didn't plan to do testing but after she went hypo in the first week as the original dosage was too high and was hypo at the vet last week without showing any symptoms (again from too high a dose) then I've decided to carry on - today is the only time I'm going to do a test every hour.  I'm not going to get focused on numbers but I do like knowing that she is safe to inject.  If her numbers stay the same then I may drop it down but at the moment I want to keep a closer eye on her.

Having a vet you trust is half the battle - starting with a 2 and 2 sounds sensible :) I'm not there with mine at the moment after she told me the lowest dose was a 5 and I had to do it twice a day!! 
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Liz on November 16, 2016, 06:57:20 AM
Mine have been Tiger Feral 3 and 3, HRH Sweetie was 2 and 1, Miss Millie was 5 and 5 for her whole time here bless her all 2 years and 3 months and now Donald Wheres your trousers on 2 and 2 to start its funny the ratio is still clear in my mind :)
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on November 16, 2016, 18:35:37 PM
DONALD NO TROUSERS  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on January 06, 2017, 14:41:34 PM
Seems there are a few poorly kitties around.   :(

After doing really well and thinking she was in remission and stopping her insulin we have been struggling regulating her, not helped by going away for a week. Sky has had a change in insulin (the original was making her lethargic and not quite herself) and her numbers are getting worse - higher now than when she was diagnosed.   :censored:  Ironically she is much better in herself on the new insulin.

She's had a vet trip today as she isn't eating so I can't inject her. She's also been violently sick and very runny poos.  She is alert so think she has an infection . I am however armed with a pee stick waiting for her to pee to make sure she hasn't got ketones which apparently is very very bad. Vet doesn't think so but as I'm still not overly trusting of my vet.....

She had bloods in December and didn't show anything underlying so hopefully she will be eating soon.  She ate a bit of tuna but nothing since....unheard of!
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on January 06, 2017, 15:57:32 PM
I am so sorry that your girl is unwell again  :(  :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on January 06, 2017, 16:42:12 PM
The vet did warn me that there was a lot of liquid in her intestine so to expect more.....


 :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

Good job she's pretty  :rofl:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on January 07, 2017, 04:19:58 AM
 :hug: :hug: :hug: FOR SKY
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on January 07, 2017, 12:25:28 PM
We have a very very cute new vet......hope he stays...... :rofl:

Erm, right, about Sky - she is eating. Woohoo. Not much but a tiny bit of Felix this morning and a half small can of applaws is more than she has had in 48 hours so think we are through it.

The 48 hours is a running theme - it took over 48 hours for metacam to get out of her system when she was poorly off that, it was 48 hours without Caninsulin that her numbers then spiked (and she became lively again) and it has been 48 hours since her last Prozinc injection. The vet agrees that the Prozinc is the probable culprit.  She could have a slow metabolism which is why she has been not herself on caninsulin - it is supposed to last 12 hours but if her body doesn't metabolise it quickly then she could have been getting a build up which has made her feel rough.

She is going to have her pancreatic function tested and she is back on Caninsulin (£80 prozinc..........wasted!  :( :( :().  She has lost 150g in 24 hours so is now about 5kg but when she eats that will improve again - nice vet did say she needed to be more slimline....... :evillaugh: but it needs to be controlled.  He is also going to look at another insulin not registered for use in the UK.  Also said we are doing a great job monitoring her - and if we are happy to inject on no food we can, as long as I keep an eye on her bloods. 

Hopefully she will keep her food inside her today :) I do need to give her another wash down though as she is a bit stinky..... :sick:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Lyn (Slugsta) on January 07, 2017, 14:40:19 PM
Sounds like progress, I hope it continues.
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: alisonandarchie on January 08, 2017, 11:13:47 AM
Hoping Sky keeps the food down. The new vet sounds great :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on January 10, 2017, 08:13:45 AM
I DO HOPE THIS NICE NEW VET HAS GOT IT ALL RIGHT AND THAT WILL BE GIANT STEP FORWARD FOR SKY  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Tiggy's Mum on January 26, 2017, 21:39:40 PM
Sorry to hear what Sky has been through this past few months  :hug: Sounds like she has a very pro-active Mum looking out for her, hope you can get things back on an even keel for her :care:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sue P (Paddysmum) on January 27, 2017, 06:55:03 AM
How is Sky getting on, and how is your new Vet.   :sneaky:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Judecat (Paula) on February 21, 2017, 18:27:24 PM
Any update on Sky :hug: :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Sootyca on February 26, 2017, 18:01:08 PM
Sorry I missed this :)

On the whole she is doing great - her hind leag weakness has all but gone.  She now runs all the way up the stairs with no problems and jumps up on the bed really cleanly.

Her numbers are also good but I think we will have to have another look at her insulin levels.  the insulin is supposed to last 12 hours so when she has been given insulin her blood glucose numbers are supposed to drop, stay level for a few hours then increase as the 12 hours comes to an end. She then gets another dose and it goes on.  Unfortunately Sky gets her insulin, drops at between 4 and 6 hours then flatlines so when the 12 hours is up she is often to low to dose properly which then swings her higher the following day.  I'm not injecting her tonight so I can see when roughly she starts to increase (though some may be food related).

She's also gone haywire this week following her annual vaccinations.

I would kill for a lie in one day!!!
Title: Re: Modified title - Sky's diabetes / Hind leg weakness
Post by: Gill (sneakiefeline) on February 27, 2017, 20:49:48 PM
 I THINK SOME WILL BE HER FOOD AND STRESS IN HUMANS MAKES LEVELS HIGHER......HER VACCINATIONS.

I DONT THINK DIABETES IS AN EXACT SCIENCE AND SUSPECT WHEN HER LEVELS DROP AND SHE FLAT LINES THEN THE NEXT DOSE NEEDS TO BE LATER THAN 12 HOURS.

HOWEVER IN HUMANS SOME FLUCTUATIONS ARE NORMAL AND ONE DAY BINGE OUT SAY AT CHRISTMAS SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM, SO SUSPECT THAT IS THE SAME FOR CATS.

WONDERFUL NEWS ABOUT HER BACK LEGS  ;D ;D ;D