Sometimes people surprise you.

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

The trouble is how to rescues know these things when we do homevisits?
I make it known when i ring people that there is a cost involved in having an animal but wouldnt stop anyone taking on a animal if they deemed to be responsible enough not to give it back to us when things go abit pear shaped or worse. Those people that think PTS a healthy puss cat due to its being a major inconvience do occur and i hear them on the phone.. !! No one can tell the future, but what i do is put a bit of doubt in to their minds as to cost and ask them to re evaluate things. A good way of sussing this out is if the existing animals are well cared for and insured, chipped, vac etc then the chances are that they regard this as all the important things and would always make the effort to do this. But i have homed cats to people on very low income.. I suppose nowadays we are more aware of these things.

My Niece is an emergency vet nurse and she has seen an increase in PTS due to vet bills and people not being able to afford the cost of treatment..Having never been that "poor" in my life (luckily) i deplore the suggestion that this goes on, but it does, how can i comment on something i deplore so much.. And sadly i just get to know about a few...When perhaps a simple operation to fix a leg or something would cost several hundred quid people now cannot afford it..!!

All i can do is hope that my rant to people taking on a cat makes them think about things. I have noticed a decrease in rehomiing pairs and we are generally neutering female and male cats early before being rehomed so that we know that they are done before going to homes. Thats one less burden for people. People have also come back to me regarding the high cost of neutering lately as well. Now around 60 quid our way.  But then they just dont put two and two together, get them neutered and save yourselves money in kittens..

In the current financial problems, neutering is the only way to go to curb the problem of people, cats and rescues.. Even the LLLL add sites are finding it difficult to sell kittens, but the demand is still there, just people are not paying for it.

Strangely since Pinkbear and my own onslaught onto these horrid sites there has been a major decrease in the adds that are appearing in the Kent listing... which is kind of worrying as where are they all now going to!! Probably just selling them down the pub, and i know that happens as well. I make a point of asking people where they might of got their cats from and not many tell me rescues it more like the friend down the road, or the local farmer..!! So we all have alot of work to do..

Abit off track.. but if we think its bad with cats, i can bet the situation with dogs is much worse..

Very interesting posts i say here though

[koscha (Ruth M)]

[quote author=Catbird link=topic=22054.msg387596#msg387596 date=1233779459
No-one can predict the course that their life will take over such a length of time. The person on Jobseekers' may become a career woman, the career woman may become disabled and end up on DLA, so how much value would there be in making a judgement based on finances?

I accept that this area is tricky.  There are many idiots, wasters and scroungers out there.  If it really was possible to stop some people from pet ownership based on their financial position then, great, we've weeded out the wasters BUT I would HATE to see my friend deprived of her cat, I would hate to see disabled or ill people without their animal companions, or indeed anyone who lives a hard life and finds their only solace in their pet(s).

All any of us can do is hammer home to people how much of a commitment, in all ways, pet ownership demands.  Sorry to bang on, I'm still feeling bad about Vi.

C.
[/quote]

Cbird I salute your freind Vi, she is an honourable woman and like you say who has the right to deny her her animal because she only has her pension? She adores her cat and assumes responsibility despite the fact that she has no choice but to turn to the PDSA for vetrinary treatment. It is not her fault. Would anyone on here claim that wibblechick and I disregard our animals because we have had to ask the state for help? I treat my cats as if they were my children as do all those on here who claim benefits- even if I was a 'mum' mum my cats would still recieve my adoration and attention.

I am a career woman (academic) who just fell ill from doing a 60hour week, plus orchestrating 3 house moves in 2 months etc. etc. and I don't doubt that I will earn decent money again (though am looking at more penury while doing a Phd ATM  ) like cbird says who are we to know what life will bring, does that mean that the minute life deals us a bad financial hand that everything we hold dear must be taken from us??? I get annoyed enough that many sheltered housing centres for the homeless/abused/ elderly do not allow animals.....They have had to surrender so much to be there, must we take that last thing that kept them going too? 

Financial income does not a good person make, it is thier willingness to take responsiblilty. Those who have a 'gimme' attitude will not view an animal as anything other than an object to be used, abused and ultimatley thrown away regardless of how good thier bank balance is.....

[Catbird]

if you hand on heart cannot afford a animal not only your love but financially as well then do us all a favour and dont get an animal in the first place.

I appreciate what you are saying here but I think it is too simplistic an answer.  Firstly, it'll never happen - we are living in a world where there seems to be an assumption that if you want something, you should get it. If you find out that you don't really want it after all, get shot of it.  I really believe that we who discriminate between an inanimate object and a living and breathing one are in the minority.  Otherwise reasonable people will decide to pass a cat onto a rescue because it is an inconvenience, with some sort of dewy-eyed notion that within days, their cat will be curled up in someone's house and will be loved forever. 

Secondly, it seems to me very unfair to tell people like my neighbour that she should not own her cat.  She has had a hard life and has been systematically let down and abused by most of the people she has known.  Her cat is her companion, friend and the one purrrson from which she receives unconditional love.  We are as close as we can be but she doesn't trust me not to up and leave or do something to hurt her.  So, take her cat away and that's essentially the only bit of her life worth living that's gone.  Ruth, Wibblechick and I have all owned pets when on benefit and there must be many, many more people whose lives are enriched by their animals.

At the root of the problem is the fact we are considering 2 very different groups of people.  If we want to go the traditional route, we could label them the "deserving" and "undeserving" poor.  But even this understanding does no good.  Could rescues in practical terms really take a judgement as to which group a potential owner belonged in and then act accordingly?  A while ago the RSPCA at Ashford (I think it was that one) declined to home a cat to a potential owner in a certain area because most of their cruelty reports came from that neighbourhood - and that decision made the nationals.  In any case, if you take on a young cat you assume responsibility for it for anything up to 20yrs or so.  No-one can predict the course that their life will take over such a length of time. The person on Jobseekers' may become a career woman, the career woman may become disabled and end up on DLA, so how much value would there be in making a judgement based on finances?

I accept that this area is tricky.  There are many idiots, wasters and scroungers out there.  If it really was possible to stop some people from pet ownership based on their financial position then, great, we've weeded out the wasters BUT I would HATE to see my friend deprived of her cat, I would hate to see disabled or ill people without their animal companions, or indeed anyone who lives a hard life and finds their only solace in their pet(s).

All any of us can do is hammer home to people how much of a commitment, in all ways, pet ownership demands.  Sorry to bang on, I'm still feeling bad about Vi.

C.

[Wibblechick]

I'm glad you don't allow the Daily mail into your house...its a filthy hack rag isn't it!  

Use it to line the litter-tray!!!!! 

[koscha (Ruth M)]

Cat bird I wasn't offended by your comment, I was agreeing!  

I do have 3 cats myself but I only took them on after doing some serious number crunching. If I had not been able to afford them i would not have taken them on. When I am finally ready to work, i will insure my 3 and find them a vet. Those 'gimme' people are a disgrace and I would quite happily let 'em have it with both barrels.  

Wibblechick I agree its humiliating to go to the DSS, I feel the same way. I had to go to them as I had a nervous breakdown. I have been treated appalingly for the entire time by the DWP, but that is becuase I do not know the system and have for the most part been too ill for protracted and intensive arguements with them (and they have taken full advantage)   I do not see benefits as a job like 'income' but as a neccessity when no other option is possible.

I know what its like to get jaded by liars, i depise liars myself, but I have recently noticed a few threads that have mentioned benefits, lying and people making generalisations about benefit claimants so I though I would post a little general 'excuse me'  

I'm glad you don't allow the Daily mail into your house...its a filthy hack rag isn't it!  

[Janeyk]

I seem to be getting more calls from people that want to adopt kittens laterly. And i have asked all my homechecking people (and of course me when i speak to them on the phone) to make sure that they realise how much money it takes to feed a animal. And to at least make sure they know about it.. Insurance yes, but the reality is that if people are in dire straight now and still insist on taking on a cat, then i am inclined to tell them "think about it! Do us rescues all a favour and if you hand on heart cannot afford a animal not only your love but financially as well then do us all a favour and dont get an animal in the first place.

I think that's really sensible Sharon good on you!  I think when people already have pets and circumstances change that's understood but not when they can't afford them in the first place or abuse the system.

[Wibblechick]

quote author=koscha (Ruth M) link=topic=22054.msg387526#msg387526 date=1233775378]


I know it is human to judge all benefit claimants as on the make but we are not all bad; to judge is human, to look beyond and correct our opinion is divine 
[/quote]

Well said! 

Ive been on benefits myself - not a choice - my ex-husband left me for someone else .... so I suddenly found myself with the rug (or my security blanket) pulled from beneath my feet.  Mortgage, hosehold bills, solicitor all suddenly had to be paid by me - we didnt know where he had gone .....(my ex - not the solicitor!!!)


A friend steered me in the direction of the DSS.  I was so embarassed   When my parents heard Id been to Social Security they were mortified - "We brought you up better than that ....."  Im still not quite sure how they thought I was supposed to pay the bills  and care for my daughter with next to no money. 

When the cats needed things (One cat lost his tail due to an accident in the middle of all this) I scraped everything together to do my best to cope.  The local vet let me pay bit by bit ....  It never occured to me to try an get free treatment.



I HATE people who abuse the system, animal or human, as it makes it so much harder for the genuine needy cases

[  It's a sad cynical world where everyone knows their rights and no-one knows their responsibilities.  I blame Thatcher, myself.

 My political leanings are generally somewhat left of centre and I won't let a Daily Mail in the house.

Agree with this, too - its funny - My Paternal Grandfather was a News Editor on the Daily Mail years bck - hed turn in his grave if he could see it now ....  as to Thatcher ... Its a pity the Brighton Bomb was not more accurate .....

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

I seem to be getting more calls from people that want to adopt kittens laterly. And i have asked all my homechecking people (and of course me when i speak to them on the phone) to make sure that they realise how much money it takes to feed a animal. And to at least make sure they know about it.. Insurance yes, but the reality is that if people are in dire straight now and still insist on taking on a cat, then i am inclined to tell them "think about it! Do us rescues all a favour and if you hand on heart cannot afford a animal not only your love but financially as well then do us all a favour and dont get an animal in the first place.

I had a call a few weeks back of a lady living in a transit van who could not afford to feed her cats, her violent OH was catching fish to feed them. Amazingly i talked sense into her and we neutered the younger puss and took in 2 cats, both treated okay but very thin. Both got rehomed. She did the right thing, but sadly people thinks its a god given right to own an animal and the reality is with growing vets bills its abit of a luxury. I find it so difficult to pay to neuter a household of cats when they tell me they are keeping the kittens... !! To which i usualy give them an earful as to whats the difference expense wise for feeding kittens for the next 15 odd years or getting a cat neutered hence saving you money in the first place... !! Nope... we do make it clear that we will always assist with neutering a cat and may indeed pay for the full amount. But if you own an animal then money comes into it somewhere. The amount of times i get calls re us paying for people vac of their cats... !! Education i suppose.. is the issue.. but vets dont really help sometimes with huge fees and none willing to do installments on payments..

[Catbird]

I know it is human to judge all benefit claimants as on the make but we are not all bad; to judge is human, to look beyond and correct our opinion is divine  

Please don't think for a moment that I was tarring anyone with the same brush - the situation was exactly as you describe.  In fact, based only on that visit, it was pretty easy to spot the leeches.  I don't think that pet ownership should be denied purely because the prospective owner has a low income BUT it is only organisations like the PDSA make this possible in practical terms.  The leeches ultimately threaten the existence of this support.  mind you, I do wonder if the PDSA should tighten up their rules a bit - apparently, you can register up to 3 pets with them.  We could see no reason why, in theory, we could not pass Dot off as another of my friend's cats (she only has one).  Be assured, we would never do this but I wonder just how severely the PDSA get taken for a ride by people pulling scams like that.  It's a sad cynical world where everyone knows their rights and no-one knows their responsibilities.  I blame Thatcher, myself.

C.

PS - Ruth, I really wasn't having a swipe.  My political leanings are generally somewhat left of centre and I won't let a Daily Mail in the house.

[Janeyk]

It must be very hard when you come against these people, someone I know myself actually once said to me she was thinking of going to the PDSA with her cats for help with treatment.  This particular person has 2 kids, own home, holidays, goes out etc, now given that I give frequent donations to this charity (and many others)  I had a few choice words to say I'll tell you!

I accompanied an elderly friend to the (not very) local PDSA last week.  When we got there and walked through the packed car park, past the kids with their mobiles and their bull terriers with their big, tough harnesses on, we managed to get a seat in the waiting room. We had to wait a bit (no animal, we were collecting meds) and while we did we watched EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON go in to the examination room, come out and leave NOTHING in the donations box.  Most of the other clients were young and covered in jewellery and designer sports gear.  When my friend finished with the pharmacist I watched her scratch and scrape together £4 to put in the box.  She survives on a state pension only and has to calculate, down to the last penny, what she has to spend on food and bills in a week.  She takes the PDSA at their word and always pays whatever she can at every appointment.  Her cat is the only joy that she has and if the cat needs something, this lady makes sure she has it, although she knows she's unlikely to ever get the credit card bill paid off.  A while ago in one of her low moods, she told me that if the cat needs more treatment as she gets older, she might have to be PTS if my friend can't afford the cab fares to the PDSA (£25 in total).  I've told her that I will never allow that to happen - it's very difficult to get her to take money but that's where the line is drawn.  It made me so angry to watch her donate this trifling amount that she literally could not afford, while others who apparently have money consider the PDSA and free veterinary treatment to be some sort of right.

Sorry for the rant but I was so angry.   

C.

Bless her 

[koscha (Ruth M)]

I despise these people myself as they tar me with thier brush  

I'm on Benefits and use the PDSA, but I always donate money even if its what I have left in my pocket. The one time I didn't was when I had NO MONEY whatsoever and I felt so ashamed   but the next time I used thier services I gave a big donation.

I get sick of seeing people in there dripping with expensive jewellery, dragging thier harnessed unneutered staffys back from tearing another dogs throat out, before walking out having given nothing and getting into thier modded fords and subarus  

I know it is human to judge all benefit claimants as on the make but we are not all bad; to judge is human, to look beyond and correct our opinion is divine  

[Mark]

Me too - when we were kids, we had to use the PDSA. My mum was always short but always managed to find something. She even put money in the box when our dog Tipsy had to be PTS  (My mum had originally rescued her from PTS - our neighbours who tethered her to a tree all day were going to have her PTS for being pregnant  )

[Debsymiller (Rufus' mum)]

  I get so cross at this sort of thing

[Millys Mum]

They abuse the benefits system so why not the PDSA too, some people dont think they should pay for anything, society owes it to them

[Catbird]

It must be very hard when you come against these people, someone I know myself actually once said to me she was thinking of going to the PDSA with her cats for help with treatment.  This particular person has 2 kids, own home, holidays, goes out etc, now given that I give frequent donations to this charity (and many others)  I had a few choice words to say I'll tell you!

I accompanied an elderly friend to the (not very) local PDSA last week.  When we got there and walked through the packed car park, past the kids with their mobiles and their bull terriers with their big, tough harnesses on, we managed to get a seat in the waiting room. We had to wait a bit (no animal, we were collecting meds) and while we did we watched EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON go in to the examination room, come out and leave NOTHING in the donations box.  Most of the other clients were young and covered in jewellery and designer sports gear.  When my friend finished with the pharmacist I watched her scratch and scrape together £4 to put in the box.  She survives on a state pension only and has to calculate, down to the last penny, what she has to spend on food and bills in a week.  She takes the PDSA at their word and always pays whatever she can at every appointment.  Her cat is the only joy that she has and if the cat needs something, this lady makes sure she has it, although she knows she's unlikely to ever get the credit card bill paid off.  A while ago in one of her low moods, she told me that if the cat needs more treatment as she gets older, she might have to be PTS if my friend can't afford the cab fares to the PDSA (£25 in total).  I've told her that I will never allow that to happen - it's very difficult to get her to take money but that's where the line is drawn.  It made me so angry to watch her donate this trifling amount that she literally could not afford, while others who apparently have money consider the PDSA and free veterinary treatment to be some sort of right.

Sorry for the rant but I was so angry.   

C.

[Janeyk]

It must be very hard when you come against these people, someone I know myself actually once said to me she was thinking of going to the PDSA with her cats for help with treatment.  This particular person has 2 kids, own home, holidays, goes out etc, now given that I give frequent donations to this charity (and many others)  I had a few choice words to say I'll tell you!

[Ela]

when you normally deal with scrounger after scrounger!

I appreciate that  anyone can come up against hard times, but every day I hear at least once but I am on benefits  and the owner expects us to do something. (Of course  the bottom line is we would never turn away a cat owned or otherwise if there was no other help anywhere). It really does make my blood boil when I know that they may have had the kitten/cat only a very short time and they adopted it when they were already in dire straits. So many people ask for a cat when they already have a number of pets, may already have the one allowed registered with the PDSA and no means to pay if anything happens.

[Janeyk]

You are right to be cautious Mark and I wouldn't change that but it's good when things turn out as did

[Gill (sneakiefeline)]

A heart warming story 

[Canterbury_cats (Sharon)]

I dont rembember this ladies name but she was in the vets the next day when i took sparky in.. I didnt make myself known but thanked our vet for helping out.. She came in with her daughter i think... We will jump over hoops to help people as long as they dont lie or take us all for a ride and we have indeed gone past commen sense to help some puss cat and owners.  But it is darn difficult when you here so much all the time and i even had lady admit to me a few days ago that what she told me first of all was a complete lie... she just thought she would get away with lying as it was easier then the truth.. (well i be!!!!!!!!!!!) I was speechless.. Well done Mark and well done our vets

[JackSpratt]

Mark, we all misjudge people - it's easily done. Glad things worked out for the lady.

[Millys Mum]

Anyway, she totally changed my opinion and I admit I had prejudged her when I took the call 

Easily done when you normally deal with scrounger after scrounger!

[Wibblechick]

What a lovely story, Mark  

I think I would have been very dubious too - we become cynical in these circumstances because all too often people want something for nothing (and I'm as guilty as the rest when it comes to the supermarket shopping ) 

I'm so pleased it all worked out OK, the cat will get the treatment needed and the lady will be able to pay for the treatment in a way she can manage.

Well done!!

[Mark]

Last week, there was a call on the line from a woman saying her 7 year old cat was very ill but she couldn't afford a vet. I thought "here we go" -  She had taken him to companion care are they said they wanted to do tests but they would cost £120 and they wouldn't let her pay weekly and she didn't that kind of money available. I asked if she had tried the PDSA and gave her the number. I explained that we didn't have funds to pay vet bills and were unable to give loans. She described the symptoms and I said I wasn't a vet but it sounded like Kidney disease. She got really upset and said she had been sent home from work for crying the previous day. Anyway, I phoned Sharon to see if she had any other ideas. She suggested one of the vets we use (also my vet) - I said I didn't think it was likely they would offer credit to a new customer. She said she would try anyway. Half an hour later, I got a call and it was the woman (I had forgotten to dial 141 when I phoned her  )
She said that she was phoning to thank us for all our help and that she had an appointment for 9am the following morning  and they were allowing her to pay weekly - I bet they are a lot cheaper as well!

Apparently, they used to be a different practice and her cat was still in their records from when he was a baby.

Anyway, she totally changed my opinion and I admit I had prejudged her when I took the call