Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: Hippykitty on February 09, 2010, 00:01:28 AM
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Sorry I haven't been here for a long time, but since Polly died Purrs reminds me of her too painfully.
I've popped in to rant and because I'm worried about Sam. Last week, I noticed she wasn't opening her left eye, so I had a look at it. At first I thought she'd quickly developed a cataract, but thought this weird cos it developed almost overnight. So I booked a vet appt. Unfortunately, my favourite vet is ill (I think this is something chronic, because he's been working part time for a while), so I had to see another, less competent, vet.
He took one look at her eye, proclaimed that "this has been there for a while" as though I'd neglected her, and gave me a dirty look. I was mad at the implication. I had a friend with me, who sees my cats often, and mentioned that she hadn't noticed anything. It was obvious he didn't believe us.
He said she has a corneal ulcer, and put drops in her eyes. He prescribed antibiotics and told me to return in a few days. I tried to make an appointment with the other vet, but he was still off ill, so I had to return to see the same guy.
On my second visit, he quickly looked in her eye, told me she'd have to have it removed, then said she was unlikely to come through the op because of her age! I asked if there was any alternative treatment. He said she could be euthanised. He said this as though it was nothing. I was shocked. I'd gone in there expecting more antibiotics or something, and he was telling me she's terminal. I had to ask if I could sit down, and struggled to fight back tears. I made an appointment for an op to have her eye removed.
When I returned home, I got on the net and found loads of other ways to deal with corneal ulcers which are less radical than eye removal. I chatted to friends on the phone and decided to cancel the op and try to see the other vet. I have an appointment with him tomorrow.
Samantha's still alive, eating, taking her meds (synulox and fucithalmic vet). The synulox have given her tummy runs! She doesn't appear to be in pain, isn't rubbing her eye. Though the ulcer isn't much changed, it doesn't seem worse.
I'm hoping the vet she sees tomorrow will be more positive.
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Please get a second and third opinion if necessary -thats just not on -put to sleep for an ulcer ! >:( >:(
Change vets if need be .
I had a vet or receptionist tell me the other day on the phone -did i want to let FiFi go as the bill was going to be big and they knew i was worried as didn''t have much money !!
I said no way ( was pretty upset at the time otherwise would have lost my temper ) said i would get the money somehow no matter what - she is absolutely fine now -think it was a blocked bladder !) and the bill has almost been paid -got the final one today and am taking it later this week .
Hope Sam is okay and continues to be for a long while yet :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Poor Sam :( good luck at the vets tomorrow :hug: x
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Good luck tomorrow hun, and lets hope your usual vet can give you some better idea of what's required.
That other vet sounds horrible, if you have no compassion, how can you do a job like that? If it were me I would complain, but I know its hard in these situations :hug:
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Poor Samantha - lets hope the other vet is better. This site http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/corneal.html is quite reliable for info but nowhere do they mention eye removal and certainly not PTS >:( - even for the worst kind of ulcer where fluid is leaking from the eye, there are treatments which may include removing dead cells or having the eye closed up during healing.
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How he can decide that after a few days is :Crazy: ulcers take time to heal and i would think stitching the third eyelid up for a few weeks would be worth trying before even considering removing the eye :shocked:
I understand your dislike of this man, i hope your normal vet gives you some proper advice!
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I have a feeling that he would rather work with livestock than pets and doesn't understand the relationship people have with cats etc. So far, I haven't had a phone call cancelling the appt for this afternoon, so hopefully she'll see the good vet.
Thanks for the link Mark, I read it but much of the treatment seems to involve surgery, which I want to avoid because she's 18 and her kidneys are a bit wonky. Her urea levels are high; not sure of the exact count.
This morning, when I put her drops in, her eye looked very weepy, white and jellyish. I'm hoping she'll heal it herself. I'll discuss the options with the vet and will definitely NOT be pts! Will let you know how it goes.
Must find new vets! Mr Bate is the only reason I've stayed with that surgery but it looks as though he'll be retiring soon. A great loss.
I'm feeling very upset and stressed by Sam's problems, would hate to lose her so soon after Polly. She's not been quite the same since Polly died: depressed. They were good friends for years. Poor Samantha. She's being great at taking her antibio's and having drops put in her eye.
:'(
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Oh HK, what a horribly abrupt vet. The crazy thing is, he probably didn't even realise how upsetting he was behaving. The old chap who owns our vet still likes to "keep his hand in" but I do wish he wouldn't. His views on companion animal care are very outdated and he is obviously more geared towards caring for livestock, much like the vet you saw.
Although I don't dislike him, I always ask for a young Australian guy at our practice because I know he'll be honest, sympathetic and think of any possible options rather than the easiest and cheapest.
Good luck with the appointment and sorry you're still feeling so sad. :care:
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Stitching the third eyelid across to help the ulcer heal worked really well for my Cassie the first time she had it done years ago, although she was a bit younger than your Sam when she had it done, maybe 14/15 yrs old. However the second time, when the ulcer returned, the op wasnt so successful, so I opted for removal and she was so much happier, because ulcers are incredibly painful and drops just don't work for long enough. :hug:
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Thats terrible behaviour from the vet, I hope you have a better time this time round.
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I saw the good vet yesterday. He gave Sam a thorough examination: of her eyes and general well-being, including putting a thermometer up bum! He also asked LOTS of questions about her health. After this, he went through the options in a logical and sympathetic way. One was to go ahead and remove the eye, risking the g.a. Another was to run blood tests before the op to see what sort of state her health is in and what kind of risk it would involve. He thought she might have hyperthyroidism because of fast heartbeat, even though she was very nervous; he thought he could feel a node on her thyroid. If she was hyper, it would be best for her to take some pills for a week or so before the op.
He also put forward the chance that the eye would naturally atrophy; but said even if this happened she'd be at risk of infection and would be better without the eye.
He then mentioned pts; at which I said NO! He asked me to consider that she has failing kidneys and a painful eye, but he felt that it would be inappropriate without trying to do something to help her first, as she isn't a hopeless case.
I decided to have the initial bloods done, and see what the results are. I took her to have the blood taken this morning. I'm hoping she'll be okay for an op.
The two vets are so different. The first, bad, vet looked her over in about a minute, and the whole consultation lasted only about five minutes, for which he charged a small fortune. The second vet gave her eye and her general health a full exam (shining lights in her eyes etc) and the consult lasted around half an hour. He charged LESS even though it's the same surgery! :Crazy:
If surgery is possible, I'll make sure the bad vet - Mr Sloan - doesn't do it. There is another vet there who's okay. When he started working there about 20 years ago he was awful, but he's improved with age and experience. I'd prefer him to do the surgery if Mr Bate can't.
Thanks for the support. Will keep you posted.
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So pleased that you saw a better vet yesterday. :hug: :hug:
Have read what you have posted and assume he told you the eye would not recover?
How old is Sam, I cant see if you merntioned it?
I hope the bloods come up with good results and remember that any cat over 10 years should go on a drip for sugery cos this helps to alieve kidney problems and also make sure they can give Sam sufficient pain relief for after the op. Tghere are also very safe anesthetics they can use on older cats :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Good to hear you saw a better vet and good luck for the results :hug:
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I'm glad the other vet was better :hug:
I think doing bloods is a good idea, at least you know what you are dealing with, then you can see if the surgery is an option.
As Gill has already said though, aneasthetics are much better these days, and as long as Sam is on a drip then this will help. When Max was due for his dental (which we couldn't do in the end as he was too poorly), they wanted to keep him in overnight on a drip as an extra precaution, so that could well be an option to suggest to your vet too if they don't?
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Good luck for the results HK! :hug: :hug: :hug:
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Samantha's bloods came back the following day and the vet rang with the results:
urea 35
creatinine 186
phosphorous 2.17
thyroid 52
neutrophils raised (infection)
no anaemia
not diabetic
liver fine
She had the eye removed and was on a drip throughout. She came home at about 5pm and had been on the drip since I took her in at 8.30am. The operating vet (neither the bad nor great one, but a vet who was very green 20 years ago but has improved greatly with experience) said she bled from her eye quite a bit and he'd packed the socket with wadding. She's taking Synulox as there was some concern about healing and infection. So far she seems fine: active and happy. She has a croaky purr which I suspect is from a sore throat where they put the tubing down - I've experienced this after a g.a., even though I don't purr!
She's going back for a check-up tomorrow (thurs).
There's some concern about her kidneys because of the high urea and phosphorous levels; and it's been suggested that she go on a low protein diet. I know there are lots of Purrs members with CRF cats; I would appreciate advise about the cheapest place to buy this: the vets charge a fortune.
Thanks for all the help and concern. She's starting to adapt to lack of depth vision and seems happy now the wound is healing and she's no longer in pain.
I feel that this is my fault, somehow; that I must have neglected her, even though she was whisked to the vet as soon as I saw the problem. Eye infections do seem to be common in neglected cats. I don't neglect my lot: Fred and Vic are pictures of health. Samantha is 18 going on 19. I just feel guilty.
Samantha loves the extra fuss I'm giving her, even though she has a pill shoved down her throat every 12hours! :doh: She was eating them willingly, amongst some munchies, but she's caught on!! :sick:
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glad she is ok, don't feel guilty she is an old lady, without you she wouldn't have reached such a grand age :hug:
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:Luv: Bless her, I think she's doing pretty well for her age and good luck wiht the vet appointment today :hug:
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Aw bless her, hope her check-up appointment goes well today, and do not feel guilty Mrs, you're the one who noticed the problem and got her straight to the vets, you could not do any more than that :hug: :hug:
Renal food can be a bit hit and miss in terms of what they will eat, with Max the RC dry always went down better than the wet pouches anyway. If you get senior food that's sometimes a good comprimise as its lower in protein and phospherous, and you can put a binder powder in too (ipakinine?) which can reduce the phospherous even further.
I can't remember the cheapest place now as I used to buy from a mixture of places, but its always pretty expensive to be honest :doh:
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There's some concern about her kidneys because of the high urea and phosphorous levels; and it's been suggested that she go on a low protein diet. I know there are lots of Purrs members with CRF cats; I would appreciate advise about the cheapest place to buy this: the vets charge a fortune.
Her urea is quite high, but creatinine isnt - so its possible the infection has caused a spike in urea.
I'd stick with her current diet and add phosphorus binders like Clare mentioned - Ipaktine is a powder sprinkled on food http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=657, or there is Renalzin http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2598 . You want to reduce phos levels, but too low protein can cause muscle wastage, and changing her food at this stage probably isnt ideal. Wet food obviously is better than dry as she needs all the moisture she can get.
I'm sure she's going to feel much better without the eye once she's all healed and recovered from the op. :hug:
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anyone who gets a cat beyond 18 years is doing something very right, in my book :hug:
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I have only just seen this thread, but you have nothing to feel guilty about, she is a fantastic age. I agree with Gillian about her levels, Urea can be raised with infection, so her kidneys might not be as bad as the vets think, as that creatnine isnt' that high (although it does depend on your vets scale) - Zia's creatnine is higher than that, but her Urea is lower - my vet describes it as renal insufficiency, rather than failure. I am glad she is adapting to her eye removal and taking her meds well.
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Since she's been on a renal diet - recommended by vet - she's deteriorated. She walks as though on a ship in a storm and seems very weak. She's not drinking or weeing as much; don't know if this is the food or infection, though she's still taking synulox. I'm trying a variety of renal food: Hill kd dry, Hills prescription kd pouches, Royal Canin renal. She's not keen on any of them.
I'm getting very concerned as she seems like a cat at the end.
The vet thought the creatinine level could be explained by lack of muscle: she's thin and has been slowly losing weight for a few years (this has been mentioned to the vet and she's had bloods done before, which were ok). If she carries on like this I'll put her back on her old food with the stuff you recommended mixed in.
Am starting to come to terms with losing her. She's not been really happy since Polly died. :(
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I have read (and it makes sense) that renal food can cause muscle wastage due to reduced protein. Clapton virtually refuses to eat renal (although I try every day) and has senior or adult food with ipakitin binders in with extra water. Every cat is so different but Clapton seems as well now, if not better than when he was diagnosed 3 years, 4 months ago. If it were me, I would let her enjoy her food - renal food smells so disgusting and I suppose it tastes as horrible. Try senior first as it is lower phosophorus but if all else fails, give her adult food (with binders in either)
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I agree with Mark, if she's not really taking to the renal, feed senior with a binder, the quantity of food eaten is more important, in my opinion anyway, as if they eat less, they will lose weight anyway regardless of what conditions are present.
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Exactly what my vet said. You can only try renal but eating itself is the most important thing, bearing in mind phosphorus content of foods - ie Hi-life pouches are one of the highest, probably due to high meat content.
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Since she's been on a renal diet - recommended by vet - she's deteriorated. She walks as though on a ship in a storm and seems very weak. She's not drinking or weeing as much; don't know if this is the food or infection, though she's still taking synulox. I'm trying a variety of renal food: Hill kd dry, Hills prescription kd pouches, Royal Canin renal. She's not keen on any of them.
I'm getting very concerned as she seems like a cat at the end.
HK, I would advise to give her what she likes. With Schui, the vet gave us various renal foods to try and he wasn't happy with any so the she said well any food is better than none weighing one thing up against the other their body will be worse off with little but possibly 'ideal' food than more of their usual type so we just let Schui have what he wanted. Also bear in mind if their diet is changed to something less palatable that is bound to make them unhappy too :hug:
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I have similar problems with Zia, she ate it initially, but now refuses, and quality of life is much more important than quantity, I am not even going to bother with binders, just let her be happy eating her normal food - at that age, enjoying food is something they deserve. Her walking could be funny cos of her eye though, as she wont have the same peripheal vision as before.
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I am not even going to bother with binders
I really would give the binders a go as the phosphates can accumulate really quickly and make them go downhill. It is what makes them feel ill so it really affects quality of life. Last summer, Clapton had full bloods done and the vet said his phosphate (2 atoms of oxygen join to one of phosphorus) levels were "significant but not threatening" The vet really stressed the importance of binders to keep his levels down. Almost a year on and he is well in himself still. He is a really picky eater and always sniffs out anything added to food but he is fine with Ipakitin - it is only a mixture of calcium with ground mollusc shells. I really don't think it affects the taste of their food. At less than 10p a dose, it is money well spent.
ETA - I just tasted it :-[ and it has a slightly sweetish/milky taste but doesn't actually taste much at all.
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MArk, I honestly dont think it will be the CRF that forces me to let her go, I think it will be her arthritis, and the fact she is on daily Metacam probably outweighs any dietary adjustments I make - she also doesn't eat that much wet food (in fact, she ate none before coming here), prob half a tray/pouch a day.
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hk i w2ould let here enjoy the rest of her life and eat the food that she likes :hug: :hug:
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On monday I'm going to phone the vet to see if they sell the binders - quicker than getting it online - then I'm going to get her some slices of chicken from the vet, break this into small piecies (yuck, I'm a veggie, but they sell nice cream cakes at the local butcher's :) ) and mix with binders if the vet sells it. Otherwise I'm giving her the chicken anyway and will have to hope she lives long enough for the binders to arrive from Vet UK.
Last night I tried giving her whiskas, but she refused this too, hence trying the real meat. If this fails, she can have cheese, which she'd kill me for!
Fancy trying the binder: :sick:
Strange thing is, she wants to be very warm all the time and howls if I turn the fire off.
Am trying to prepare myself.
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If you order from VetUK, you will have it by Wednesday latest. If you order a 150g pot @ £14.22, the postage is free - I know vet prices can be up to double :Crazy:
My mum was quoted £48 for a Feliway by the vet and I got her one for about £23 online.
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Thinking of taking her to vet tomorrow; her eye doesn't look right: it has swollen out like a golf ball over the last few days.
Thanks for the info Mark.
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Oooh that's sounds nasty, maybe it's infected and needs some abs, good luck tomorrow :hug:
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Poor Sam :(
I hope the vet can sort her eye out. :hug:
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Good luck with the vet, hope it just needs antibiotics.
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Samantha has crossed the bridge.
Took her to the vet earlier: he said she was very cold; she was also twitching slightly. I described her symptoms, the unsteady walk, not eating and he could see that her eye wasn't right. He was less concerned about her eye than her general condition. Instead of putting up a fight while being examined, she just lay there, felt cold to the touch and twitching. It was almost as though she were dead already. I postulated that maybe the swollen eye was causing the probs: pressure on optic nerve. He undid one of her stitches, nothing came out, and he put a syringe into her eye and drew out only air. She was still taking synulox from since the eye op.
I felt that she had totally given up and was ready to go. There was nothing left of her, the feisty little cat had given up. I also thought that any more procedure would be prolonging her pain. The vet agreed.
Strange how something so small (corneal ulcer) can take someone so big.
I'm feeling strange, as though she's still here. I haven't had the heart to put her dishes and litter away. A friend is coming over any minute to keep me company. She'll be buried near Polly tomorrow.
RIP Samantha, you were very loved. :'( :'(
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so sorry you have lost her, hk
it sounds as if she was ready to go, but I know that doesn't make it one iota easier
she was with you a long time, and you will miss her so much :hug:
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:'( I'm so sorry HK :hug: :hug:
I've ammended the title for you :hug:
RIP sweet Samantha xx
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Am very sorry to hear this HK :hug: Have changed the title for you :(
You gave her the greatest gift :hug:
The Greatest Gift
I always knew this time would come,
From the very instant our eyes first met.
How I loved you then! How I love you now!
I made a promise then, and I will keep that promise now...
You will not suffer from a pain that will not heal;
You will not know the loss of a life remembered, now gone.
It is for me alone to make this decision,
The price for the bright joy and pure laughter
You brought me during the time we shared.
I am the only one who can decide when it is time.
When my hope dies, and my fear rides high,
Just when I need you most, I must let you go.
It is for you alone to tell me when you are ready
For without your guidance, I will not know
When to lay my grief, my guilt, my anger
My sorrow and my selfish heart aside
And give you this last gift, this greatest gift.
Your eyes will speak to mine, and I will know.
The pain of this moment is excruciating.
Tears stream down my face in a river of sorrow.
And my heart drowns in a pool of grief.
For you have spoken and I have listened,
And unlike other decisions I have made
This one brings no relief...no comfort...no peace.
For if there´s one thing you´ve taught me,
If there´s only one thing I´ve learned...
Unconditional love has a condition after all,
I must be willing to let you go, when you speak to me
I must be willing to help you go, if you cannot go alone.
And I must accept my pain so you can be free of yours.
Go easily now, go quickly now,
Do not linger here, it is time for you to leave.
Go find your strength, go find your youth.
Go find the ones who've gone before you.
You are free to leave me now, free to let your spirit soar
Rest easy now, your pain will soon be gone.
I pray I will find comfort in my memories...
In the dark and lonely days ahead.
I cannot say I will not miss you, I cannot say I will not cry.
For only my tears can heal my broken heart.
But, I promise you this; as long as I live,
You will live, alive in my mind, forever in my heart.
So I give you this last gift, all I have left to give,
And this will be my greatest gift...sending you away.
It is the measure of my unconditional love...
For only the greatest love can say,
"Good-bye, go find the bridge, we'll meet again,
Loving you has been the greatest gift of all."
Forever and Always... Until Rainbow bridge....
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sorry Helen must have crossposted :hug:
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I'm so sorry hunnie :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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I am so sorry to read this - she knew how much you loved her :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
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So sorry for your loss HK she was a very special little lady :hug:
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So sorry. :hug:
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HK I'm so so sorry I haven't seen this this thread before now :'( Please accept my sincere condolences for your loss.
RIP Samantha ... play hard at the bridge darling and know your mummy loved you so very much :hug:
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Sorry HK :( :hug: :hug:
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So sorry, thinking of you :hug: :hug:
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So sorry to hear about Sam, thinking of you. x
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Sorry HK :hug:
You tried - RIP Samantha
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I'm very sorry HK :hug:
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I am so very sorry to read this, you did everything you could for her. RIP little one
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Oh, HK. :care: I'm so sorry, I know you'll have done everything you could for Sam, but sometimes they just decide it's their time. :care:
RIP, Sam. Loved always.
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I'm very sorry. RIP little Sam.
:hug: :hug:
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Oh HK I am so so sorry - thinking of you Hun :hug: :hug: :hug:
RIP sweet Sam, play hard at the Brdge Sweetie xxx
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Devasted to read this and please accept my sincere condolences :hug: :hug:
RIP Samantha, play hard on the Bridge
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So sorry to be reading this HP :hug: :hug:
RIP Samantha, play hard on the bridge sweetheart
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We buried her today, next to Polly. I put toys, catnip, a can of Whiskas and my ankh with her. I also gave her two coins for the journey: ten p piecies, because they have lions on, and gave her a rock of rose quartz. I hope she finds her way to Bastet and Polly.
It's hard to believe she's gone, I keep expecting to see her in her usual sleeping spots. Now and again I remember that she's gone and it's like it's only just happened.
Thank you for all your condolences and for the poem Helen; the poem made me start crying again. She'd been with me for so long it's hard to imagine life without her, but I don't think she's really been happy since Polly died last year. I hope they meet soon.
None cat slaves just don't understand the love we have for our puddies and can be a bit "so what?". Luckily one of my friends has five monsters she loves very much and she's been very understanding. Others have been a bit callous without realising.
I may change my avatar soon. I don't want to erase Polly and Samantha, but it hurts so much to see their pics. I may put a pic of Fred and Victoria up.
Thank you for understanding.
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for You HK
:hug: :hug: :grouphug: :hug: :hug:
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:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:
One thing you can be sure of, we on Purrs all understand what you are going through, whether we've lost furkids or not, nobody will undermine your feelings on here one little bit as we all share them :hug: :hug:
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HK :hug: :hug: xx
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Rest assured everyone on here that's lost a feline family member has felt very similar feelings. Sam and Polly have probably already found each other. :hug: :hug:
The poem that helped me when I lost my feline family members is this one:
Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there, I do not sleep.
I am in a thousand winds that blow,
I am the softly falling snow.
I am the gentle showers of rain,
I am the fields of ripening grain.
I am in the morning hush,
I am in the graceful rush
Of beautiful birds in circling flight,
I am the starshine of the night.
I am in the flowers that bloom,
I am in a quiet room.
I am in the birds that sing,
I am in each lovely thing.
Do not stand at my grave and cry,
I am not there. I do not die.
I still feel my three with me from time to time. Imagination or not, it's massively reassuring to me. :hug:
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I've changed my avatar to an old pic of Fred and Vic; they're much bigger now! Fred's been very loving over the last few days, as though he can sense my grief. I'm so glad I decided to keep them (they were from a colony of ferals I rescued; the others were homed, but at that time Fred was a bit vicious and devoted to his sister Victoria so difficult to home) they're such a comfort to me now.
Thank you for all the good wishes and :hug:
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I am so sorry for your loss.