Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Warm Welcome to Purrs! => Welcome to Newbies :) => Topic started by: scotgirl on June 29, 2008, 21:19:42 PM
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Hello everyone
I have been recommended to join this forum, by someone who responded to my ad on ad trader, who was concerned that I had a free to a good home advert, because some people respond to these adverts to feed their lizards, and snakes, and this has shocked me to the core, :censored: :-[and makes me physically sick, so I am very frightened of putting any ads now, for my cat, on the likes of ad trader.
The background
I have not long moved into a multi-storey high flat, and have been told by the housing association, that due to a certain multi-storey high flat act of the law, that I cannot keep my indoor cat. If I risk moving my animal in, I risk losing my house. :scared:
Now I have had my cat for 16 years, and it breaks my heart, to be told that I have to give her up. I have tried all sorts of avenues, but I am not getting any responses from my ads.
So, I have now come to this forum for advice. :thanks:
I would dearly love to keep my cat, and this housing association claims that I cant.
Is there anyone, on here that can help me, find a decent genuine cat loving home, or the least help me keep my cat with me in my high flat(she is indoor cat and no probs healthwise)
Many thanks, I know this is my first posting, but I appreciate, all responses and advice that anyone can give me
regards from Heather
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:welcome: to the forum Heather
So sorry to hear about your situation
Whereabouts are you?
Good luck with your puss I hope that you are sorted soon.
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Hi & :welcome: to Purrs
I posted in similar circumstances to this a while back, hope this might be of use to you. Really hope you can work something out so you can stay together :hug:
Have a look at this document, it could be argued that a no pets clause is an unfair tenancy agreement...
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft356.pdf
There has been a ruling in an EU country that this is the case so just quoting the office of fair trading's guidelines might make them back down.
Edited to add: Ok that's 100 odd pages long! Here's an exert on the pets issue from another website... It's in the 'Analysis of other terms considered potentially unfair:' The eigth one down, the office of fair trading is the best document to refer to, I posted that one because it is bascically a shortened version of that document.
Unreasonable ancillary obligations and restrictions
Terms that put tenants at risk of incurring contractual penalties that are more severe than is necessary to protect the landlord’s real interest in safeguarding his property generally will be considered unfair. Terms restricting a tenant’s use of a property should be reasonable in relation to the type and location of the property. Other examples of unreasonable prohibitions include terms against keeping pets. Such a term has been considered unfair under comparable legislation in another EU state because it could prevent a tenant from keeping a goldfish. A term prohibiting the keeping of pets that could harm the property or be a nuisance to other residents would be unlikely to meet the same objection.
http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-factsheets/factsheets/factsheet-10b---office-of-fair-trading-guidance-on-unfair-terms-in-tenancy-agreements.html
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Hello there
thanks Yvonne for welcoming me to your group
I am in the West Scotland area, near Paisley.
I do hope someone can help me quickly.
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Hi Heather :welcome: to Purrs,
Sorry you've joined us under these circumstances but you are doing the right thing by coming here rather than advertising. whereabout in the country are? Have you tried contacting your local resuces to see if they are able to assist (check out catchat for local rescues - follow the link and click on your area on the map http://www.catchat.org/adoption/index.html). How long have you got until you move to your flat?
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Heather giveus a wee call later
mags
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Hello there
yes, I have tried the local Inverclyde cat rescue, but because they have full to capacity, cattery, they cannot take my animal in. They suggested putting ads in the supermarket, which I did, but because of the age of my cat, I never received any responses, and know with this adtrader ad, i was shocked to find out what some people are doing, by picking up all the free cats and kittens on these adverts and feeding them to the snakes and lizards.
I was told that it is unlikely that I will find a suitable home, as the majority of people will assume that older cats, have more costs and responsibilities, my animal has never been to the vet for anything, apart from some standard injections. I have been fortunate that way.
She is still in great health, and I am worried that some cat rescue places would put her to sleep, if they could not find a home for her. I have been told of some places that have done this, so I do need to know some genuine cat Rescue links and organisations and the Scotland area.
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Hi Heather, I put a plea out for this little girl and did receive an email from Mavis who is at Blaikiewell Animal Sanctuary
http://blaikiewell.com asking for a contact number. Mags mentioned that if possible you want to keep your cat but I can put you in contact with Mavis if you need to rehome. Let me know what you want to do and I'll do what I can to help :hug:
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totally understand your concerns regarding rescues putting her to sleep ... however most independent rescues (ie NOT the RSPCA / SSPCA) operate a no kill policy and you should also ask them about this first. However I understand the best case scenario for you would be able to keep your furbabe with you. I hope Helen's links are useful - of course being as you are in Scotland you will have to bear in mind that your laws may be different :(
I'm sure you will get plenty of advice and assistance from this site.
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Hello there
just off the phone, regarding the situation with one of your members, she has advised me to possible contact the citizens advice bureau and try and contest the tenancy agreement that was drawn up, and I will get hopefully an answer.
I will keep you all posted xxx
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:welcome: to Purrs..... :)
Hope you manage to get sorted, I really hope the HA will oblige! Good Luck! :hug:
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:welcome: to Purrs
and GOOD LUCK with this awful situation, cant see why they cant turn a blind eye to this??
I mean how much mess and noise can a wee pussy cat make ?
It Beggars belief :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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I do wish I could press on thanks to all the posts on the subject here.
I am very grateful for all the support
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I see Josie dosnt mind wearing clothes too :evillaugh:
I would go to the CAB and get some advice, I wouldnt like to loose my cat after all those years together. I lived in a first floor flat with 4 cats before and never had any problems with the council. And with Josie being indoor I dont really see their problem.
Ask to see their tenancy hand book for rules on pets, and also ask others in the multi if they have pets. :)
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OMG jose in her jammys lol
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and also ask others in the multi if they have pets. :)
Ya can bet ya wee bum they do...& there be a few dogs there aswell
Heather tell them what ya told me about having pigeons?
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I was reading through between the tenancy agreement (it says Scottish secured on the top) about owning a domestic pet, in a multi storey dwelling, you can actually own pigeons with their permission in a multi-storey high flat, but not cat or dog, (they allow guide dogs) I would certainly imagine that having pigeons would cause a lot more mess and noise than a house cat. lol
I will just have to go through the tenancy agreement section about owning domestic pets with a fine tooth comb and trying to find a loophole somewhere.
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Awwwe i really feel for you on this. :(
How distressing this must be .
Josie looks such a lovely chilled out cat too.
I really hope she is able to stay with you in your new abode.
Good luck and im keeping everything crosses for you and Josie xx :hug:
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Obviously you want to do everything legally and above board but would anyone really know if Jose actually moved in with you?
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i was looking at the paperwork refusing me the animal
this is what was quoted from the letter I received from my local housing Association officer
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I am sorry to inform you that river Clyde Holmes cannot grant permission for this
as stated in the conditions of the tenancy agreement applicable to multi-storey flats regarding pets and animals which you signed section 2.5
as intimated in the letter, I do not have the ability to alter or reconsider tenancy agreement. This is directed by the 2001 Scotland Housing act and this is not at local level.
If you feel that you cannot live without your cat, I can only suggest is you find alternative accommodation where pets are permitted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This is is exactly what was what was printed on their refusal letter above.
Is there any legal eagles on here that I can nitpick at the above?
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I have brought this thread to the attention to BlackCat ... who may be able to help with the legal side of things. :hug:
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i have copies of the letter and of the tenancy agreement if anyone needs to see the wording on it?
I have made appointments with legal advice team, and with my local MP, to see if I get some backing on this, I just so upset all the time, why do these people make it so hard
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is this the wording you have ??
I got it from here - http://www.riverclydehomes.co.uk/downloads/WEB%20-%20River%20Clyde%20Homes'%20Appendices%20(2).pdf
2.5 If you wish to keep a domestic pet in a house that is not in a multi-storey or a sheltered housing
complex, you must get our written consent (see Paragraph 10.3 for how to do this). We may
grant our consent subject to conditions which may include the following:
• Keeping your pet is not prohibited by the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, or by any other law;
• You are responsible for the behaviour of any pets owned by you or anyone living with you;
• You must take all reasonable steps to supervise and keep such pets under control;
• You must take all reasonable steps to prevent such pets causing nuisance, annoyance or
danger to your neighbours and this includes fouling or noise or smell from your pet. If your
pet causes disturbance to your neighbours, you will no longer be allowed to keep it;
• You must take reasonable care to see that such pets do not foul or cause damage to the
house, your neighbours property, anything belonging to us or anything we are responsible
for, such as the common parts;
• You will be responsible for cleaning up any faeces from your pet.
If you live in a multi-storey or a sheltered housing complex, you cannot keep any pet except up
to two domestic caged birds or tropical fish. Multi-storey or sheltered housing complex tenants
may not allow visitors to bring a pet or animal into the property. The only exception made to this
condition is for assistance dogs.
Domestic pet means dog, cat, bird (but not pigeon), fish, rodent (such as hamster, gerbil or
mouse), small non-poisonous reptile (such as a terrapin or tortoise) or non-poisonous insect or
amphibian (such as a newt). This does not include any other animal and no exotic or wild
animals will be defined as being a domestic pet.
Pigeons are not domestic pets. However, if you wish to keep pigeons, you must have our written
consent, which is likely to be granted only subject to conditions which may include restrictions on
the number of pigeons and where they are kept.
If it were me, I would sneak Josie in :sneaky:
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Yes that is the exact wording, you can see yourself. It is just an outright rejection with no reasoning. Maybe that is what I can pick at?
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If it were me, I would sneak Josie in :sneaky:
Me too and I would absolutely tell no one!!! ;)
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Its sucks but you have signed the agreement? I cant see you can loop hole that as its pretty specific.
If you live in a multi-storey or a sheltered housing complex, you cannot keep any pet except up
to two domestic caged birds or tropical fish.
Its a really horrible situation, at 16 years old she isnt going to be causing damage >:(
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I'm afraid that if you have already signed a tenancy agreement that had a 'no pets' clause, you have agreed to all of the conditions of the agreement. That is to say, you can not take your cat into the apartment. How tight are your timeframes, as the only option really is to consider alternate accommodation, as they suggest in their letter. Rehoming an older cat is difficult, so if you can get one of the local rescues to help you with short-term accommodation for her that will be your best option if you are tied into the present agreement. Once you move into the flat, you will also be tied down to any requirements for notice, so if you have time to find an alternative that would be your best bet to keep your babe with you.
Sorry I can not be more cheerful. But having been both a tenant and a landlord in my time, there is little room for flexibility if the landlord won't play ball. :(
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I feel so sorry for you scotgirl.. Josie is adorable :Luv:
Like Blackcat said how long do you have before you must move? I would seriously look into the private rental sector as there are places out there that will allow you to keep a cat. I know I'm in one of these houses! :evillaugh:
The guys on here are from all walks of life and can advise you on any aspect of how to find alternative accomodation. For example I am currently on benefits due to illness but rent privately and my rent is covered by Housing Benefit. It is do-able I've done it!
As for the Housing Association, please go to the CAB, they are fantastic at their job and if anything can be done they will do it. But look into alternatives as well and cover your bases.....
Good luck my dear :hug:
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bc I was a Landlord too, and as far as I remember " hmm I cant think how to put this down , hold on a mo......... "
ok as far as I remember (with a little help from the internet)
It is illegal for a landlord to enter the property unless you have 24 hours written notice - however you can refuse this. Within 24 hours, the landlord must get your express permission to enter.
giving you plenty of time to put away the food bowl and hide Josie in a cupboard :shocked:
ok not very practical :( , but that would be the road I would take.... :naughty:
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errrrrrrrrm yes :-[ I seem to recall indulging in similar activities when I was a tenant in Sydney :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
If the flat is furnished it becomes a little more tricky as shredde bits of furniture are a dead giveaway. And if the paint job is bad, then clawmarks on the windowsill are also a problem (I speak from experience here ...)
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BC Tut,Tut :no no: I am :o ...... :ha ha :
ahhhh but I would also catproof the home with throws etc,etc and if Josie's anything like misty
they only cluck and scratch every once in a while ( or maybe Misty's just lazy :briggin: )
just remembered, I did a similar thing with my TV :sneaky: poor thing was in the cupboard for months :evillaugh: till i was caught out :(
b :censored: y TV license inspectors >:(
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I tried throws, but that was in a flat where the owner had given permission. But, at the end of the tenancy I had to buy them a brand new sofa set ............At least they let me keep the shredded one, as I did not have one of my own .................
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Rehoming an older cat is difficult, so if you can get one of the local rescues to help you with short-term accommodation for her that will be your best option if you are tied into the present agreemen.
In total I've had 3 offers to help with this cat but I'm not sure whether or not they would do it short term. There is a lady in Bridge of Wear, not sure where that is but she fosters for Farplace Animal Rescue and she could provide a safe foster home for her. I need to know asap though as these people can't afford to keep space open for too long as thousands need help :tired: There is also Mavis from Blaikiewell Animal Sanctuary and her offer of help :shy:
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I would give them a sob story, I think its the only thing you can do.
Could you get your vet onside and get him to write a letter for you saying Josie need daily special care (you can make up the condition) then ask the very nice rescue lady closest to you to also write a letter saying they cant take a cat that needs so much care, then you could copy them for the HA.
I know this would be lying but anything would be better than loosing her :sneaky:
:hug:
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Another option i suggested to heather 'if' push comes to shove she can explain to the housing officer/council that due to joise age, rescues being full & the time slot that it wouldneed to take to rehome an older/elderly animal it would be best interest for joise to stay & when she goes heather wouldnt get another pet while she stays in this property.
Theres going to be others in this block with cats & dogs ya can bet on that & if the council think theres not then their mistaken....others have just kept their gop shut & got away with it so far.
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I agree with RR ... my friend lives in a block of flats in Nottingham city centre ... the flats are above the main shopping centre and the residents are not allowed cats, dogs or children ... however I know for a fact that there are loads of people with small dogs and at least 4 people I know that have cats. As long as no-one complains, the pets don't cause a nuisance and the tenant behaves the council has no reason to come round and therefore the pets go undetected ;)
If it was me I would arrange for Rosie to spend the first week in a cattery or with friends then once you are settled into your flat bring her home and don't mention it to anyone.
It is totally unacceptable to expect people to live on their own with no company especially if they have had their pets for as long as you and Josie have been together.
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Theres another important reason that joise needs to stay with her mum but Im goini leave that choice to heather wither to say what it is........but even a non animal person should understand the importance of this & not dimiss it.
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Is there any more on what's happening with this lady and whether she still needs a home? I've had another email off Blaikiewell Animal Sanctuary and Mavis thinks they can find a home for her but I need to know as I don't want to be wasting her time :shy:
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Hi dawn Iv no heard from her & dont know if shes checked the forum
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Thanks Mags, is there any chance you can find out so I know what's happening?
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I sent an email to heather to update on here
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Hello everyone
I didn't get any messages to tell me that I had replied to my posting, so sorry about that, mags e-mailed me and says to update the posting.
I went to see a solicitor today, to get some legal advice on my situation. They just said that I would be liable to be evicted if I took the animal in, because I signed the tenancy agreement, so I therefore "agreed" to the rules. It just confirmed what I thought, anyway, that I would get in trouble if I sneaked josie in. So legal bit over :scared:
However, I spoke to my local councillor, and I was also told that councillors have full-time jobs as well as being a Councillor, which I didn't know about this.
Anyway, it's so happens, that the councillor for my area, seems to have some sort of membership of a committee with the housing association that has refused me. :briggin:
He phoned me today to say that he has written to them and asked for, some leniency and flexibility. I will not know for a few days what the outcome of this will be. ;D
I am hoping upon hoping that I will be able to keep her with me in my high flat, so many thanks to the advice and support of everyone on the forum, and I will come back and let you know if the councillor has had any effect on the outcome. ;D :wow:
Regards from Heather
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Hello again
I have already been in my flat for six weeks now, my mother has been taking care of the cat, whilst I find out what is happening but it is temporary only, and she maintains it's only temporary, and is getting a bit sick of me stalling her about it, and she is not an animal lover, you can tell! and she likes to keep her house neat and tidy, and I think Josie has already started to claw at the couch, so that is is that what is not making my situation any more helpful.
I buy the food, and pay for anything that she needs, and she seems to be settled in there, but my mum has a back and front door, and of course been letting her outside, so of course she is enjoying being outside. However, I still say that she would be a house cat, as she has always been with me and it hasn't bothered her.
I understand about sneaking her in there without the landlord, knowing about it, about the 24 hour permission, but the fact is, there is quite a lot of people, who would probably knowing the rules on multi-storey flats would tell on me. The lift door, where people stand to wait on the lift, is right beside my front door, unfortunately, and if they heard an animal in my house, they would no doubt, or straight to the housing association. It's about mean i know. I guess all we are waiting on is what the councillor says xx
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Keeping everything crossed for a positive outcome Heather :hug:
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I hope they agree to her moving in :wish:
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have you heard anything yet, thinking about your situation... really upsetting.
keep smiling, am sending positive thoughts your way
TF xxx
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Put some little fairy wings on her and tell them she's a new breed of pigeon, one that purrs.
I know it's not a laughing matter, so good luck with the Councillor!!!
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just an update on the situation
I am still waiting from my local councillor, on what I can do in regards to my situation, I have had e-mails from him, and it's not looking too promising.
I am still keeping my fingers crossed that all I get a proper answer
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Good Luck!!! Misty and I are Keeping everything crossed
:hug:
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hello there
yes I feel a little sad, I just feel that it's not going to go the way I am hoping
xxx
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keep your chin up. Theres still a chance. Personally, i think it's completely unreasonable that they're being difficult about this >:( My old landlady was difficult about pets, she said the chinchillas were causing rising damp! And she just turned up whenever suited her without 24hrs notice but thank godness i'm not there anymore.
:luck: though, i hope they let you keep her :hug:
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she said the chinchillas were causing rising damp!
Thats original pmsl the things folk come up with makes ya shake your head at their stupidity
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yes I have noticed, that they cannot give nor specify any particular reason, when they state that the animals must go.
it really can get very silly, when you actually read the wording of the official documents
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Josie is lovely, she reminds me very much of my dear departed cat The Proot. :Luv:
Do you think it might be worth contacting your councillor again? I hate feeling as if I'm hassling people, but if they have agreed to try and help you am sure they won't mind you contacting them.
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i am waiting his response.....
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Sorry, I missed the bit where you said he'd already emailed you (I blame the cider I've just drunk!!).
Wish I could offer some more help :(
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Heather has put another ad in adtrader for Josie :-: just seen the ad just now
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YES, I DID put an ad in adtrader again, , but worded it differently, but now i know what to look out for, I will vet anyone who gets in contact very carefully.
why is it such a crime anyway to put ads in ad trader? i am a responsible cat owner, and would never allow any person, to hurt/be cruel to any animal via these ads.
anyway, been chasing up the councillor as i haven't heard from him, via my appeal, but looks as if it may be bad news, as he hasn't got back. :(
on another note::
someone must know something and is telling tales on me in the flats, and has told the caretaker i had a cat in my flat and of course, i got the inevitable knock on my door, and of course, no cat.... he didnt ask outright, but made some excuse about plumbing needing to be checked >:(
so a few days later and one of my neighbours on my landing (remember i told ye they were nosey so n so's) :Crazy:
bumped into me in the lift, as they said i am sure i can hear a cat meowing coming from your flat when i am standing at the lift, so just as well i never sneaked her in, its bene her who has sneakily told the caretaker i may have a cat in the flat, as why would need get in to see my flat, just a few days before she accused me of having cat in there, very strange co incidence.
anyway, my local newspaper is running a advert for me with a cute story hopefully beside it, this week and making her poet of the week so hopefully that's good news in a way :wow:
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still got no response from councilor, getting a bit sick of it anyway, as it seems i am not going to win!
josie is getting a new home!
a couple who have just moved into their new home and have a garden etc, are prepared to take my cat and says i can visit her anytime!
so will post any updates when i caqn..
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Hi Heather thank you for the update
Good news that you have found a home for Josie but sorry that she could not stay with you
Hope it all works out ok
Best wishes to you both
:ahh:
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Heather I'm so sorry Josie isn't going to stay with you but great news that she has found a new home and that you can visit her.
Thanks for the update and please remember you don't have to own a kitty to be a member on this forum so please stay in contact and I'm sure we will all share our kitties with you ;)
Take care and give Josie a big cuddle from me xxx
Sam. Foxy, Zephyr and Rossi xxxx
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Sorry she cant stay with you but a home you can visit her in sounds lovely ;D