Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat General => General Cat Chat => Topic started by: berties mum on August 25, 2007, 10:32:36 AM
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Sorry that this is related to a dog rather than cats, but as all you lot are fellow animal lovers, I'm hoping to get some excellent advice! ;)
My dilemma is about my nextdoor neighbour's dog. He moved in back in May, with a large female border collie. The guy is, to say the least, a bit odd - he's about 50 and has only just moved out of his mum's, and doesn't seem to be able to handle simple tasks like doing his washing, let alone looking after a dog. Ever since the day he moved in, the dog has been out of control. He is out at work for around 10 hours a day, and on the days I have been at home during the week, I would estimate that I've heard the dog literally howling from inside the house for a least 8 hours a day. At night, he comes home and puts her straight out into the back garden, which is about 10ft x 10ft, and she howls out there until around midnight, and tries to jump the fence at any car or person that goes past.
One of my other neighbours is a major dog lover and has spoken to him already about her concerns that he never seems to walk the dog, and he replied that he thinks once or twice a week is enough as he's busy working, and that the dog "doesn't really fit into my lifestyle so I know I can't spend enough time with her and that's why she barks all the time." Another neighbour approached him about the fact that the dog had tried to leap over the fence at her small daughter, and he said, "You have to understand she's a rescue dog and I can't do anything with her." I have also been told that the dog recently attacked the owner himself, and he was seen out with her in the park with a row of stitches in his arm, running away whenever the dog went near him!
Several peole in the street have gently suggested that the dog may be happier with someone who can train her properly and spend more time with her, but he just doesn't seem to accept there's a problem. Does anyone else think I should make an approach to the RSPCA? I have genuine concerns about the dog's welfare, which have now well surpassed my initial frustrations about the barking.
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When you say he is a bit 'odd' and that he has just left home aged 50 - is there a chance he may be intellectually disabled? It is defo cruelty for a working dog not to have a good solid hour or two a day of vigourous activity. It should include frisbee at the park and all sorts of things. Similarly when he is at work the dog should be outside - i dread to think what condition the inside is like. Does he look like he would have the sort of money that could pay for dog-walking. Mine costs £10 for an hour's walk so it would add up quite rapidly if it was a daily service (I only use mine when I know I will be home late as it also means Shadow can be shut in the house once it is done).
Also, if the dog is attacking his owner there is a real risk of serious injury there. The man seems to lack the intellectual capability to understand the needs of his dog and its requirements for training, exercise and regular care. If the RSPCA were to go around and explain these things to him and if he was still not complying then I would be seriously concerned.
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Very frustrating a neighbours dog barking all the time!
I think the reason he may not want to let her go is because he has no other company, you know what single men are like.
I do believe a dog can be trained no matter the age but he obviously does not want to do that. Maybe the dog would be better off with someone who has time for it.
As for the RSPCA- I cant say much about that.
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Does anyone else think I should make an approach to the RSPCA?
If I were in your position I would most certainly have a word with the RSPCA.
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Thanks for all your replies, which really are helpful. The last thing I want is to look like a spiteful neighbour who wants the dog taken away because of the noise, but if it was just the noise, I would talk to the local env health dept rather than the RSPCA. Blackcat, in answer to your question, I don't believe he has any sort of disability (although who knows?), he's just "odd" as in being rather socially inept. For example, when he first moved in, he informed me on his very first day that his dog was aggressive and that I'd be better keeping all my cats indoors from now on, and seemed genuinely surprised that I didn't take kindly to being told what to do!! He now doesn't speak to me at all and told another neighbour he finds it difficult to talk to "young women" and that he finds me "intimidating"!!! He does hold down a full-time job, but I don't think he'd have the money for a dog walking service as he's a housing association shared ownership scheme member and has a D-reg banger, and has garden furniture instead of a sofa, so I get the impression money is tight!
Your point about the conditions inside the house is a good one - as a cat owner with a litter tray, it hadn't occurred to me, stupidly!! Let's just say the smell of the back garden isn't too appealing so the inside is probably bogging ... no wonder the man is single.
Yep, I think my mind is made up. All of us in the street are worried that the dog will attack someone and will be destroyed, and it would be devastating as it is a beautiful dog that has fallen into the wrong owner's hands through no fault of its own. She is only about 2 years old so surely there's still hope for her in the right home.
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seriously socially inept by the sound of it which could be why he is also unaware of, or unconscious of the other issues, perhaps a bit of aspergers ..., not able to 'engage' with other people?? anyway, enough of the psychoanalysis, the dog needs to be removed from his care as it has the capacity to become a menace to society. So yes, call the RSPCA
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You could well be right about the aspergers - he is definitely truly unaware of what he's doing to that dog .. the last time my OH mentioned the barking to him, he apparently raised his eyebrows and said, "So you're saying you hear the dog barking a lot? Really? Could you give me examples of when you find it particularly bad?" Alarm bells also rang for me when one of my neighbours told me she'd been discussing Minnie with him (my cat who lived with the previous owner of his house and was left behind when he emigrated) - apparently he said he could understand why someone would emigrate and leave a cat behind, and that surely Minnie would be fine eating out of bins. That's not an animal lover talking, is it? :shify:
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I think just believe what your ears hear, maybe he didnt say this (or maybe he did), I'd just trust your own feelings about this.
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Very true - the alleged comment about Minnie isn't what really worries me, it's what I see and hear myself being nextdoor ...
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... and a bully to boot - what a nice man ...
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Oh, he's a real charmer ... I'm so glad he's here ;)
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i would contact the RSPCA, you dont want the dog to end up suffering because of it.
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There's an instinct you get when someone 'spooky' lives next door. I had one once... a couple of months later I found out from a neighbour that he'd been caught at the back of the houses up a ladder, with a pair of binoculars, looking into a young girl's bedroom. :sick: :sick: :sick:
Call the RSPCA. I would...
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Sounds like he hasn't much idea of how to care for a dog, especially an active dog like a border collie. Has anyone in the street asked him outright if he would consider rehoming the dog as he obviously doesn't have time to give that type of dog the attention needed?
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Have a try & talk to the guy about the dog that it needs to have exercise & not be left in the house/garden for hours cos of barking etc. Also re the dog attacking him by the sounds of it hes not aware of what will happen to him & the dog if it attacks anyone else or animals, aswell as the dog at risk of being PTS he will get done for a dangerous/out of control dog & land himself with a heavy fine/prison sentence. As he said the dog is a rescue dog so try fnd out what rescue centre he got it from & contact them.
You will need to contact your local dog warden & explain things & ask her/him to have a visit to the guy & have a talk with him. Also contact the council regarding the barking etc.
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Cheers all ... unfortunately people have tried subtle, and not so subtle, hints about rehoming, which have all been met with a raised eyebrow and "she's a rescue dog, no one could do anything with her" >:( >:( >:(
I think a call to the RSPCA next week is a must ... I also know the local authority dog wardens personally (used to work there) ...
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"she's a rescue dog, no one could do anything with her"
BULL.....that i do not believe... obviously someone that has brians to work with the dog in training etc can work wonders that he is not willing to undertake. By what you have said this person shouldnt have this dog or any animal as its only a matter of time before something happens & its going to be the dog that pays for it
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I think a call to the RSPCA next week is a must ...
Is it not possible you can ring now? 0870 5555 999 then when a voice answers press 2 2 4 and that saves minutes of listening to options.
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Oh, huge thanks Ela - I didn't imagine think the cruelty line was manned at weekends and didnt want to leave a message ... thanks, will let you know how I get on. This morning we endured 2 hours of constant barking puncuated by weak cries of "Stop it!" and "Heel!" Aaaaaarrrrggghhh .... >:(
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Just wanted to give everyone an update on the dog nextdoor situation!! After I last posted on here, I had an off-the-record chat with our local dog warden and she popped round to talk to my neighbour. She then called me and said he had admitted he couldn't control the dog and no longer wanted it, and that they had agreed he would rehome the dog with his mum - BIG relief. Anyway, we then went a week without seeing or hearing the dog ... and last Thursday, she was back again! Turns out that the mother couldn't control her either and she'd broken the back door in that house by flinging herself against it, so he'd agreed to have her back and try again. On Friday, i was at home during the day and was horrified to see that the dog was trapped in the house, barking, all day, with a huge stack of furniture piled up against the back door. So I finally bit the bullet and called the RSPCA, who said they will come out next week. Initially I felt bad because he'll probably guess it's me who complained, but then today he came round and complained to me about Minnie, who apparently keeps looking though his kitchen window and "causing upset." (!!!!!!!!) Plonker.
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The sad thing is that if your local RSPCA is like ours and they can find the slightest excuse for it not to be re-homed, I fear for the dog. Although I appreciate you have no choice because the poor little one does not have much of a life now.
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Totally agree Ela - I do worry that nothing will be done, which is why I took the dog warden route first. I guess I'm hoping that he does have a conscience deep down somewhere and perhaps when he realises a complaint has been made to the RSPCA, he'll realise enough is enough and do the kind thing by rehoming the dog himself - and NOT with his mum. It must be difficult for the RSPCA when they have much worse cases of cruelty to deal with, but so frustrating to live nextdoor to this situation and feel so helpless too.
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yes you do rather have to puzzle over the logic that might assume that a woman (presumably in her 70s) could do a better job of controlling the dog than a man in his 50s. Apparenly mummy has always solved little lads problems for him...
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VERY true Blackcat, he never does anything without mummy's say-so ... when he came round to complain that Minnie keeps glowering at him though the window (GO GO Minnie!!), he actually used the words, "My mum says I should come and tell you it's causing upset." BIG sigh ........
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lost cause. Should shut him in the back garden and send the dog out to work. They may enjoy increased productivity ...
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lost cause. Should shut him in the back garden and send the dog out to work. They may enjoy increased productivity ...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Mass hysteria in my house now!!!!!!!!
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Just wondering, further to my thread below, if anyone knows how long it normally takes the RSPCA to chase up reports of cruelty and whether they definitely let the complainant know what has happened? It's two weeks since I reported my neighbour now and it seems nothing has been done. The situation is now getting really worrying as earlier this week, the dog bit an elderly neighbour ... she wasn't badly hurt but it drew blood, and the owner simply responded with "Oh God, you're the second one she's attacked now - sorry about that." I am getting very nervous because the dog barks at me quite aggressively every time I go into my garden and there's only a four-foot fence separating us. I urged the neighbour who was attacked to call the RSPCA too, but she thinks it will be put to sleep and says she doesn't want it on her conscience. I'm wondering whether I need to mak another report or whether this sort of timescale is normal.
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i think I would be making a major nuisance of myself at this stage. Definitely ring them again. They probably put the patient people at the bottom of the list for service. If no action, suggest your local member might be interested in their lack of response. If your local member is not part of the government that should make them really hop to it.
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Thanks for the advice Blackcat - just called again and had to go through the whole process again - apparently they can't call up my original complaint due to "data protection." They've said an inspector will call me tomorrow ... watch this space ... >:(
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and with an election lurking in the wings, now would really be a good time to bring pressure to bear :evillaugh:
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Too right, I'm keeping that one up my sleeve for the time being! The operator I spoke to tonight sounded totally disinterested, just like the last one ... am seriously rethinking the £3 a month I donate to the RSPCA that could instead be donated to Bertie's treat fund ...
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Or to Dogs Trust? Who actually give a monkeys ;D
RSPCA drive me potty - I saw a lovely cat bowl I nearly bought and then realisd some of the proceeds went to them and decided it wasn't worth it.
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£3 a month I donate to the RSPCA
Well hope you know that £3 a month will be going into the non animal side...as in either a pocket or furnishing an office or going into someone penson etc
Have you contacted the local dog warden & council? The dog would be better off taken away & rehomed toa responsible person thats willing to put in the time & effort to properly socialise & train. Its down to the onwer not the dogs fault I can imagine the dog not knowing if its coming or goin & confused. Once settled into a proper home & routine the wee dog would make a good family pet.
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Update on this - STILL no call from the RSPCA and the owner has just put finishing touches to a shed he has built to keep the dog in, so she can't poo in the house while he's at work. I am FUMING. Three other neighbours have now called them too, and I have called again saying I'm stopping my donation - much good it'll probably do.
We've tried the dog warden but they've said they can only call during working hours and whenever they go there in the daytime, he's at work and the dog's indoors so they can't see her condition. They said to keep calling the RSPCA.
I think I will stop the RSPCA donation and add it onto the amount I give to the CPL instead. They were fantastic when they rehomed Bella with me and when Minnie was missing in the summer, so are definitely more deserving of my hard-earned ££££
I am stunned by this ... I always thought the RSPCA did a great job and people judged them too harshly. Real eye opener. :(
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Any update on this?
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I reported my neighbour for leaving her dog ouside while she went away for a couple of days...reported it on Thursday and RSPCA Inspector came round that afternoon.
It shouldn't take 2 weeks, surely?
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In a word - NO. I complained on Sept 24 about the lack of action, and nothing at all in response. They have my address, email address and 3 contact numbers so there's no excuse. I stopped the direct debit for my monthly donation and upped my contribution to the CPL instead. Do you think a letter of complaint is worthwhile?
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very much so. And address it to the CE, not to the local branch >:(
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VERY exciting update (that's sarcasm by the way) ... I had a letter today ... they are investigating my complaint!!! Woo-hoo ... no rush there then >:( >:( >:(
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I reported my neighbour for leaving her dog ouside while she went away for a couple of days...reported it on Thursday and RSPCA Inspector came round that afternoon.
It shouldn't take 2 weeks, surely?
We had a case a couple of weeks ago where the neighbour had reported to them and they said 3 weeks :(
We made the cat "disappear" the next day ;D
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Wish I'd thought of that one Mark, although I'm not sure how to make a border collie disappear! ;D
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Hi Bertie's mum,
Just seen this thread. Like others I would have contacted the RSPCA too. It is within their perceived area of expertise. The animal's welfare must always come first. It would seem to me that this dog is howling for help. The lack of attention is cruel.
Was this originallly his dog or has he inherited it from his mother? He clearly can't or won't cope.
I'd be very interested to hear how this goes.
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Hi all,
Right, watch out, an angry rant is coming!
Just had a call (at 8pm on a Sunday - random!) from an RSPCA Chief Inspector who had been asked to contact me about my complaint. If you recall, the details of my complaint were that I had reported the situation re. the dog nextdoor, and that the situation had since rectified itself because the owner had rehomed the dog of his own accord, but I was appalled at the fact that the RSPCA had never come out to investigate despite repeated phone calls from me. This woman was calling to tell me they had now set a date to knock my neighbour's door - in THREE WEEKS time - TWO MONTHS after my original complaint. When I told her the dog wasn't there anymore and I had let the RSPCA know this both by phone and in my email of complaint, she accused me of not having let them know and told me their time is very valuable and I had potentially wasted it. She also told me I should never have reported it to the RSPCA in the first place as it was a dangerous dog and therefore a matter for the police, but couldn't answer why their call centre staff never told me this on any of the THREE occasions I phoned. She also disputed that I had ever been told someone would call me the next day about the process of my complaint and said that maybe I had asked for a return call and heard yes when they'd said no!!! So now I'm a liar as well. She told me I'm a difficult person to deal with and "obviously feel more passionately about this than most people would" (!!!!) and that I have to understand that each inspector receives two complaints a week and they have to prioritise, and a dangerous dog is not their priority because it should have been reported to the police.
When I told her I had cancelled my donation to the RSPCA and was very sad I had felt the need to do so, she said it was "probably better" to end the relationship between them and me anyway.
I cannot get over how rude she was - or that she didn't even know the dog had been rehomed and was presumably perfectly happy with the idea that the problem was still rumbling on six weeks after I reported it.
It really has confirmed all my worst suspicions about the RSPCA. I hope I never have to contact them again but I now worry about what I would do if I ever knew of a neglected animal in the future, because I now know they're no help at all >:( >:( >:(
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Just realised - for people who have only seen this thread - I did post about the fact that the dog had been rehomed but in a different thread. She was returned to the dog's home two weeks ago because she attacked her owner ...
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I knew i had seen that somewhere but wondered why it was not on this thread - thought I was going :Crazy: :Crazy:
I wonder where that woman did her customer relations training - clearly not anywhere we know...
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I think I was so excited when I heard the news that I got straight on the laptop and opened a new thread with a title like "Hoorah" but that was probably a bit confusing for people.
I have no idea ... the most annoying part of the call was her continually talking over the top of me. Am now discussing with OH (who heard my end of it and was appalled) whether i should write to the CE but not sure how far it would get me. The fact is that the dog is out of danger, so maybe I need to stop feeling so irate about it.
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me, I'd write. people like her do nothing for the reputation of the place. Did you get her name?
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Yes. I could post it on here but that would be libel ... tempting though :evillaugh:
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Bertie's Mum,
I really wish I could say that I was surprised. It is the reason why Roger on here a while back started a thread with a petition to ask HM Government to seek an alternative from the RSPCA to police the Animal Welfare Bill.
There was a badly injured wood pigeon in my garden the other day. He had been attacked by, I strongly suspect,a local cat who has been stalking them in my garden (NB not one of ours as they are in an enclosed part of the garden. I appreciate that is different from your experience as it is a domestic animal. From bitter experience I knew there was no point in contacting the RSPCA call centre. It might as well be in India for all the sense it makes. The advice is dire and if I had followed their advice (I use the term loosely) on a previous occasion the bird would have suffered a very painful death. I loathe bad ill thought out advice as it is part of the problem not the solution.
Thankfully, I have 2 excellent wildlife centres which are equidistant from of where I live. I trapped him and took him to London Wildlife in Beddington where I know he will have his best chance.
You have sadly witnessed first hand the problems that the RSPCA have with a number of their staff. Having slammed them I will say that I have had excellent dealings with 2 centres, which I won't name, for fear of them being checked by RSPCA HQ!!!!!!!! They have staff who are sensible and deal with real life rather than the jobsworths they seem to attract.
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Thanks Beanie. I feel so let down by them. I have supported them financially for years and always believed they did a good job - in fact, I have in the past defended them when people have slagged them off for the exact sort of thing I've now experienced first-hand. As I said to the inspector who called me last night, this isn't about whether the dog is now rehomed or not, or how long it took them to take action, or how many times their call centre staff gave me duff info - it's about the fact that I reported a suffering animal to people who i trusted to ease that suffering, and they made me feel like an absolute nuisance who was warped in some way for caring about this dog's safety, and indeed the safety of my own three cats who had to live nextdoor to an increasingly aggressive and desperate dog.
My monthly donation is going to CPL now, who were excellent when they rehomed Bella with me, and having seen all Bella's paperwork, they never gave up on her when owner after owner handed her back in the first five months of her life. The person who originally found Bella in a skip with her litter mates called CPL rather than the RSPCA because they didn't believe RSPCA would act quickly enough to save the kittens' lives ... knowing what I know now, I am so glad they made that decision.