Purrs In Our Hearts - Cat Forum UK
Cat Health & Behaviour => Health & Behaviour General => Topic started by: msrisotto on October 01, 2014, 21:36:39 PM
-
Hi everyone,
I don't post much but have been a member and reader since 2010. I love my cat dearly but can't go on cleaning up wee at least twice a day.
She is an indoor cat (5 years old, spayed) and has stopped weeing in any of her (3) litter boxes. I move them to where she wees and she'll pick a different spot, or she'll wee right in front or next to them, sometimes so close it goes under the box. She does not adopt the spraying position, it is a squat down wee but it is by the front and back doors downstairs so does look like territorial marking, however she really does empty her bladder - is that a sign of something else? This started intermittently in the height of summer and she has a history of doing this infrequently. I took her and a urine sample to the vets and they didn't find anything apart from that she was a little dehydrated, i've put more water bowls out and she drinks a lot more now. They just did the cheap test, not the culturing and no bloods- do you think I need to get that done?
About once a month or two I might hear cats fighting outside - this is the only evidence of other cats that I have noticed. I put deterrents outside anyway, just in case they were bothering her. I also put out a third litter box with a different type of litter but she didn't touch it and I don't think she has a problem with the type of litter. Her 2 boxes are in a good location (private, quiet etc) and I spot clean them often - the third box is not in a great spot but it is where she was weeing so she chose it although she doesn't use it. I clean using the Pets at home Simple Solution.
I've been using Feliway plug ins for months, bought some rescue remedy which she dislikes and have now resorted to ordering a packet of Zylkene. I'd prefer not to medicate her to be honest. She has a cat tree and lots of scratching posts and beds all of which she uses.
Thank you for reading this far.
Do you think letting her go out would help her? Do you have any other ideas? I don't know how long this can go on and re-homing her is my worst nightmare.
-
the first question must be - have you tried her with a litter box as far away from doors and windows to the outside? it's not unusual for cats to wee near exterior doors, because they are aware there are other cats outside, and they are marking to keep them away
second question is do you think you have managed to eliminate all trace of urine smell where she has been? sometimes it is better to keep the litter trays away from the soiled areas, and try covering them with aluminium foil after a thorough clean with biological washing powder
third question concerns your reasons for keeping her as an indoor cat - unless there is real danger from traffic, she might well be happier going outside, but I would strongly recommend you keep her in from dusk to dawn - the cats likely to pick fights with her will probably be roaming around at night, and there is also more danger from cars during the hours of darkness - the ideal is to make your garden proof against her getting out, and other cats getting in
-
Thank you for replying!
1. As she was peeing right by the doors, I put the litter boxes right there, are you saying I should put them as far away from the doors as possible?
2. I have been using shop bought enzymatic cleaner which I have hoped would be enough. Maybe I should go back to a DIY washing powder/water solution?
3. I was advised to keep her inside for her own safety as she is part rag doll part moggy and they said that rag dolls aren't very street savvy. I don't live directly on the worst road, but a busy road isn't far away.
-
I'd certainly give moving the litter trays well away from outside doors and windows a try, to see if it makes a difference - the fact that she pees outside the tray, without being able to dig and cover, suggests to me she intends her wee to be plain to see and smell, and that can only be directed at 'enemy' cats outside the door
whether they are actually there is another matter, but that could be her logic in her little furry brain
I'm no expert on cleaning urine, but I have read others recommending bio powder, and using a special torch which shows up where the stains are might be a good investment, as you could well be missing some
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=cat+urine+light&tag=googhydr-21&index=aps&hvadid=33183153230&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9329270897364577665&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_43oiuaj694_b
-
It's good that you've attempted to rule out any physical disability, which might be affecting her. However, it could be worth another visit, just to be on the safe side if you're thinking it may be physical rather than pschological.
Or, possibly, as she's part rag doll, and presumably quite fluffy, she may find the type of litter is causing static and giving her electric shocks. It can apparently be problematic for longer haired cats, who can generate and pick up static more easily. (just a thought!)
Also, cats dont always like to have their litter boxes tucked away in private places. They like to see whether or not they're going to be ambushed during a very vulnerable moment, which is why although boxes with lids are favoured by humans for their cats, a lot of cats dont feel particularly safe using them.
Jackson Galaxy has some very useful information on his website, and I found this link, which could help to give you valuable clues as to your girl's behaviour.
You could also consider "sight screens" on any windows where the outside cats may be able to see in - that could be an opaque material stuck to the glass, or cardboard taped over it, so it prevents her seeing other cats and from them seeing her.
http://jacksongalaxy.com/2014/08/18/cat-mojo-why-does-my-cat-pee-outside-the-litter-box/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JacksonGalaxy+%28Jackson+Galaxy%29
Is it possible to her to have outdoor access without having to leave the garden - ie could you cat proof the garden and then give her access (maybe not possible if you're in a flat or dont have access to garden space)?
The blacklight torch Kay suggested is a good idea, as you could then check outside and see where the visitor cats may be marking and see if there's a correlation to where your cat is weeing.
What deterrents have you tried in terms of the outside cats?
-
Thank you both, I do have a black light for ensuring the urine is cleaned up properly and there isn't anything to suggest outside cats are marking the house. She has short/mid length fur.
I have bought a motion activated sonic animal repellent for the front and back doors.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/PestBye-Battery-Operated-Cat-Repeller/dp/B004SGC75S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412265952&sr=8-1&keywords=solar+motion+cat+deterrent (http://www.amazon.co.uk/PestBye-Battery-Operated-Cat-Repeller/dp/B004SGC75S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412265952&sr=8-1&keywords=solar+motion+cat+deterrent)
I love Jackson Galaxy! Must have watched all the Cat from Hell programmes and read his book too, thanks for the recommendation.
She has done a tiny wee in her box today (in the same spot as always. This morning I moved the 3rd box to a spot furthest away from any doors but she hasn't used it yet) but I put rescue remedy in her favourite water bowl and she's not drunk much of it so maybe that is related. I'll see if I have any cardboard for covering up the windows. In the living room she sits on a tall cat tree which looks out the patio doors onto the garden - do I have to block up the whole lot? I'd feel quite guilty about shutting off her 'cat tv' and also, would hate to lose the view myself. I could cope with blocking off the bottom foot or two though.
I bought brackets a few years ago and attempted to enclose the garden with flimsy netting which failed miserably. I can look for a more sturdy plastic chicken wire type material this weekend and have another go.
-
Just a thought about the cat repellers, it could be she can hear them from inside even if you cant and this is upsetting her.
-
Jackson posted a video on the Q&A of Litter Boxes, here's the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW5yOYK8c60
He also did one how to set one up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzliLSt7myE
-
Thanks, I'll look at those links. Good point about the deterrents. To be honest, I've not seen cats in the garden either so I'm not convinced there's much worth repelling.
Someone mentioned to me that letting her outside might make it worse if she can smell other cats....what do you think?
-
I put a litter box as far away from both doors as I could, but she still went by the back door overnight. I have put the box back there now.
-
I think I might consider having more tests done. You did mention she was drinking a lot more now and also she was a bit dehydrated at the vets. Is it possible there is a kidney problem. diabetes or maybe something like bladder stones causing cystitis or making her wee more. I don't know but I think I'd like more tests to try and establish it is not medical. She is likely going back to the same spot due to it still having the smell even in the air. Even if it is psychological the vets may be able to give something for a sensitive bladder?
Could you try her outside on a harness and lead maybe and see if she gets upset outside. If the other cats are weeing near the step she will smell it even if the door is shut and you don't go out. If you have insurance it should be covered. I hope it gets sorted soon.
-
Thank you for your support. My husband is useless at trying to think out what to do to try to fix this so I've got no one else.
So, 2 out of the last 3 wees have been in the new litter box by the back door, since I took out the litter and put paper in it. Nt completely sure what that tells me...she likes a smooth surface? Maybe I'll put litter box no.2 over there as well to see if it more about the location....
-
I put her in a harness and she spent the whole time eating it so that might take a bit longer...!
-
Sounds like the litter was not to her taste. maybe you need something very fine
-
She still poos in her cats best litter though. Strange. Still, I will hope that this is the issue (and the location which she has chosen herself) so I can figure out a long term solution. I read on here or somewhere else that their cat likes material hamster bedding which is a thought.
I'm using biological washing solution and surgical spirit to clean as well now.
-
Fingers crossed
-
I took out the litter and put paper in it. Nt completely sure what that tells me...she likes a smooth surface?
I used paper (cheapo loo roll - it's flushable!) instead of litter for one of mine. Eleanor is missing a front leg so cannot dig and took against the wood pellets I've been using for the boys. She didn't have a problem accepting the paper and I'm not really sure why it works other than paper is often the first stage in getting kittens to use a tray, it soaks up everything quickly and, for her particularly, it was possibly easier to balance on. I kept using the loo roll for about a month and then tried her with Cat's Best, which also has a pretty quick "soakaway" action and which she now seems quite happy with.
If she's happy to wee on paper and poo on Cat's Best and with the location of her trays (even if they're not that convenient for you), I'd be inclined to leave things as they are for a while so that you all have an opportunity to de-stress!
I used RX66, a bio-enzymatic liquid that kills the bacteria that causes the smells cats go back to, which has been recommended by other Purrs-mates. I got myself this: http://www.commandenvironmentalsolutions.com/epages/BT4547.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4547/Products/POSKD (http://www.commandenvironmentalsolutions.com/epages/BT4547.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/BT4547/Products/POSKD) which is the whole kit & caboodle of cleaner, digester and smell remover and which has lasted ages. The super strength foul odour eliminator mini spray is a godsend for super strength poos! :sick:
-
Hi Frances. I went through the same thing with Zoonie, peeing and pooping everywhere except the litter tray. I >:( ;D tried everything, every cat litter going trays in different places. In the end it was back to original litter. He now uses the tray every day for pee and poop, occasionaly he poops outside the tray and always in the same spot. I think he needs a bigger tray as he is a big cat /kitten, he and his brother Astrophe are 8 months old.
I don't know much about ragdolls or ragdoll cross, are they a large breed. Maybe a big tray could help.
Not being much help am I ;D
-
Ragdolls not a big breed a cross could be but they look so like birmans and they bloomin breed them with white feet now grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
-
I have 2 Ragdolls Minmin is 4kgs and Casper is 8kgs so raggies do come in all shapes and sizes ;D Minmin is a chocolate seale point and Casper is a Blue bi but I also have an NFC at 8.72kgs and some of the moggies are 7kgs they are big boys!!!
-
Update!
Thank you for your advice. Jelly appears to have gone back to using the boxes in the downstairs loo, where they've always been with the same litter that has always been in there. The only difference is that I blocked up the window so maybe that has helped. I haven't removed the box by the back door yet, nor the puppy training pads I put down, but she hasn't used them for about a week! Fingers crossed I can phase them out.
-
Sounding good, phase out very slowly
-
It does sound really encouraging. ;D I agree though - take it very slowly before changing anything else - give the situation a chance to settle. It might just be that the sight blocking has worked and taken the tension out of the situation. Well done for persevering. :hug:
-
Hello again :)
So we had a good couple of weeks, but now she's taken to peeing on the floor again! The house is covered with puppy pads and tin foil :( Will she ever be a normal cat?
We have 2 litter boxes with regular cats best, and one litter box with a puppy pad in. She will poo in her regular box, and wee in the box with the puppy pad or on the floor around the boxes.
I've noticed that she scratches at the window frames too and think she might be insecure in her territory. I heard cats fighting outside overnight but what can I do about that? I don't see cats come closer than 10/12 feet of the house (just passing through!) and I have high pitched noise deterrents front and back. I bought Zylkene but have never given it to her....hate to do so when I had 2/3 weeks of success. Any comments appreciated x
-
Zylkene is a natural product and I use it on ferals when they forst come in to us its takes the edge off them there are also plug in diffusers in the Purrs shop which we have used in the past again with relative success
What litter did she ise before coming to you and I use compost with the ferals gradually replacing with sawdust pellets over time and then they use the pellets and clumping clay - I use Clumping clay, paper pellets, wood pellets and have sevetal empty grit boxes with nothing in it and all are used they can be fickle our fur kids
-
Is that plug in like Feliway? I also bought pet remedy drops but they don't seem to have had any effect.
I got her as a kitten 5 years ago. She was used to those big wood pellets.
-
So why arent you using the wood pellets now ?
I would get rid of the high pitched deterrents as she will be able to hear them.
-
I can hardly remember why I don't use them anymore. It was probably that she was peeing outside the box and the internet recommended finding the finest grade litter I could. She hasn't had wood pellets in 5 years - you think I should change back? I don't mind of course. I just thought it was too long ago now to make a difference.
-
very fine grain is usually what is recommended but don't suppose it could hurt, sounds like you've tried everything else! by the way zylkene that Liz mentioned is a powder you put in food
-
Just a thought. I wonder if organic compost or coir might make a good cat litter for a cat that doesn't like normal litter.
Julie.
-
Yeah, I have Zylkene but haven't used it yet.
I can try wood pellets, I am reluctant to have actual mud in the house though, and Bickhamwitch - what do you mean by coir? Like a front door mat? If she was consistently weeing on the puppy pad in the box, then I would feel better about trying (and buying) all kinds of different types of litter, but she's not and that is what is so confusing.
Are many cats like this?
-
Coir is a peat replacement you get from the garden centre. It's soft and light but is like compost so you do get a bit of it trailed around the house.
Julie.
-
Ok, I've never heard of coir in that way before, every day is a school day!
-
The high pitched detterents need to go!
-
They will go! But the problem pre dates them, they were an attempt at a solution.
-
OK good luck
-
Hello again :)
Thanks for all your advice. The high pitched deterrents have been turned off, it didn't seem to make a difference either way.
So, fingers crossed....she appears to be consistently weeing in a new litter tray that is lined with a puppy pad.Other 'hot spots' in the house are protected with puppy pads and she hasn't used them for a while (although that last time I removed one she peed on the floor where it had been, even though when it was protected by the pad she didn't use it!)
I have tried offering her trays with cats best, large wood pellets and super fine clay but none have been as tempting as the floor or the puppy pads.
My plan now is to reduce the size of the puppy pads, bit by bit and eventually get rid of them altogether. I have guests over at christmas and i'd really like to resemble a normal household at least for a while...
Anyway, the puppy pads...are they a long term solution? There are down sides to them such as cost and the fact that they don't hide the smell at all. Should I be trying to offer her anything else instead?
-
I use 5 sorts of litter here, clumping clay, larger non clumping clay, wood pellet, paper pellets which may be worth a try you can get small bags of them and finally potting compost yes we are trying to get Cody in for the einter and I also have empty trays which are heavily used by some of my indoor/outdoor crew and my oldies
-
does newspaper in the tray work?
-
Yes newspaper works although not as absorbent. I reckon an empty tray would work too but I don't want her trailing wet paws all over.
I'll see about paper pellets although I have the distinct impression she wants a smooth surface. How are paper pellets different to those wood ones?
-
Yes it does sound like she wants a smooth surface and I would stay with what works best for all. maybe cut the puppy pads into 1/4 pr 1/8 and buy in bulk. At end of day think newspaper probably as expensive lol.
Good quality litter like Smart cat pellets cost me £11.60 for largest bag but in winter go thro them so fast with 3 cats but think she doesnt like the hardness underfoot like you said.
Never used paper pellets but will not be smooth underfoot.
-
Thanks. I do cut the pads to fit the tray. I can put up with it if it works...
-
The paper pellets are very smooth under paw and foot, and as for wood pellet use 30 litres a week and 15kgs of the Clay sorts, I get my wood pellet for £9.99 from PAH and they deliver and usually have special offers on which can be good as well