Author Topic: Introducing kittens to cats  (Read 7088 times)

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2015, 08:08:03 AM »


This might help to sort out some of the answeers you need:

http://jacksongalaxy.com/2014/07/08/cat-mojo-how-to-introduce-two-cats/

I'd let the two "oldies" come and go as they have been, otherwise they may associate the kitten introductions with negative issues, and I would suggest the same with regard to letting them have the room to roam indoors.  If you can, you can then let the kittens out when the big cats are out, so helping with the scent swapping.

With regard to how long, I would say until you see signs of improvement, when you can proceed cautiously.

It's hard to say why your original introductions took a reversal, but dont get hung up on that, save as a way to understand how to avoid it happening again.  Unless you can guage how much the older cats actions are being affected by the visiting cats outdoors, you may find it hard to discern exactly what it is that's kicking off the older cats' behaviour.   It maybe that whatever's going on out there is having as much effect on them as what's going on indoors, and the two have coincided.

It might help to keep a diary if you can - a daily record of what happens, where and when, and with whom.  Make it as detailed as you can, and watch the cats' interactions with each other - body language is the real cue with cats.  They rely on that and sight and smell so much more than we do.
 
:hug:  We all want this to work for you too, so keep us posted.

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #42 on: August 31, 2015, 21:04:06 PM »
I've put the poor kittens in their original safe room and covered the glass part of the door in wrapping paper. How long do you think I should keep them locked in there for?
And the oldies, can they have free access to the rest of the house to put their scent on all the stuff that the kittens have been on? They are avoiding the cat trees ( I have several) that the kittens have been on.
Should the two oldies who are off with each other also be fed separately from each other?
Should I keep them indoors at night?
The kittens are being spayed next Monday. Do I keep them in the room all this week? They make such a racket scratching at the door to get out. Still -cruel to be kind. Why did my original introduction not work?
Feliway is nearly run out but some more is being delivered tomorrow and I've ordered one of the pet remedy diffusers to try.
Thanks for 'holding my hand' with all this.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 21:10:16 PM by pussinbooties »

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #41 on: August 31, 2015, 18:44:50 PM »
I agree with Liz about going back to basics.  Try the sight blocking, and keeping the cats separated for now, feeding the ones who get on on one side of the door, apart from the one who isnt settling.   It may take a few weeks to sort, but it should settle down - dont rush things.

Offline Liz

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2015, 17:16:14 PM »
Zylkene takes the edge of tension with some cats - I have used in ferals and abused cats, do you have any plug ins like Feliway on the go etc

I have a very multi house and have no issues with my cats an my current 2 kittens who are partially sighted - try going back to basics and doing careful introductions again
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Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2015, 14:12:04 PM »
I've gone back to keeping kittens separated overnight. Mr Bubs I notice does a lot of coming and going outside looking very pre-occupied. One morning recently Katie was on the bed with me and he came up the stairs and jumped on her aggressively driving her off the bed. He's also fighting outside. I do think the outside dynamics are having a big effect and I don't know what to do to resolve the situation.
I've been reading other forums too ( posted on one today) and think I read zylkene can enhance aggressive tendencies. Wondering whether to stop that.
I am so worried.

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2015, 14:00:05 PM »
Next one about five mins later , Mr Bubs was just giving a quiet growl. You can just about tell from Katie's reaction and then she went out.

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2015, 13:59:17 PM »
Update:

Relations with kittens the same. There is less hissing but still not comfortable in their company. I am feeding twice a day in the same area. Also giving treats to all four and mostly they will tolerate being very close to each other.

Older ones are coming in more but still mixed bag on their relationship. Older ones only seem comfortable on cardboard scratcher beds on the landing. This morning I put them right up close to each other to see what would happen. Here are the pictures. First one, they look positively chilled.

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2015, 21:12:31 PM »
Thank you for replying.

Another wet day here today and this time all four cats indoors quite a bit of the day. Mr Bubs on the cat tree and Katie on a cardboard scratcher/bed. Mr Bubs even tolerated the kittens running up the cat tree like lunatics ending up above him.
Funnily enough before reading your posts, I gave oldies their zylkene in lickelix on the landing where Katie was.( not sure if zylkene is making any difference) Kittens approached inquisitively and I distracted them by giving them little treats on the floor and they were all round each other in close proximity harmoniously.

I agree that free feeding needs to stop. Especially as I find kittens don't want their kitten food and munch on oldies food instead and vice versa. I swear Mr Bubs is getting fatter.So will begin a routine tomorrow twice a day and pick up the bowls after 10 mins. If oldies not in then nothing until next timing.

There is still tension between the oldies. Sometimes they'll be in close proximity minding their own business and I'm encouraged and then other times one or the other will be negative towards the other. The affection has disappeared. Such a shame.

On a positive note I don't recall any hissing towards kittens today.

Let's hope the feeding routine helps oldies bond again.

Thanks re facebook. I'm one of that rare breed that wouldn't know where to start with facebook.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 21:14:44 PM by pussinbooties »

Offline Liz

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2015, 11:46:26 AM »
I also use bribes of treats with some of the untolerant oldies and find this works as the kittens don't get the treats the adults feel superior again and feel free to have a look at my lot on face book and you will see where their is one there will be more than one cat most are sociable enough and the kittens share out alpha girls bed as long as they respect the boundaries

Mine range from 21 to 18 weeks with groups of domestics, ferals and Bengals, Mau's, and Ragdolls and the NFC and we are thinking about fostering again 2 older Bengals at 12 and 14 so see how they fit in
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Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2015, 07:25:25 AM »


Hard to know whether the situation with Katie and Bubs is all down to the kittens, or down to the ferals who frequent your garden too, and you may have two separate situations going on, with a combined stressor on the indoor/outdoor cats.

With regard to feeding, if you free feed at the moment (and I think you do, as you said they all get fed at different times during the day) you may have to be firm, and withhold free feeding, making them all eat at the same times each day - though not necessarily within sight of each other.  You need to associate the older cats with anticipating good things when the new kids are around.   The risk exists however that the older cats, being indoor/outdoor, may choose to find somewhere else to eat instead. 

As an alternative to feliway, you could try Pet Remedy plug-ins.  A few of us on here have had good results with them. 

Alternatively, you may have to accept that the older cats may never feel settled with the younger cats, and will choose to spend time outdoors or on their own more.

We found that when we had Paddy and Flynn, Paddy (our older cat) never got over the horror (in his view)  of having another cat inflicted on him. 

Over the years, he grew to tolerate Flynn (Flynn on the other hand adored Paddy and just wanted to be loved by him in his turn) and would occasionally let him sleep alongside, or would roughly groom him, but Paddy was always happier as an only cat, and when Flynn went missing, Paddy began to return to spending much more time indoors. 

He was, quite simply, happier alone.   That was very sad for us, as Flynn was such a love - a gentle and generous spirited cat.  We never did find him after he went missing, but the positive that came from his devastating loss, was the return of our old Padster - playful and loving, content and a lot happier to stay in the house.

As Liz has commented on her very mixed and substantial cat family, they will learn to get along, though they may never love each other.  A group of cats will always establish an accommodation - not a hierarchy in the way that dogs will, as cat communities have a habit of changing dynamic from time to time. 

With our lot for example, since Visitor Cat No 1 had his road accident, he's treated differently by the others, and often gets picked on and shoved around a bit by all of them.  But - just as often, he can be found cuddled up alongside the others - even formidable Boss Cat Tinks.   :-:

In many respects it's still early days with your crew, and when the colder weather comes, the older cats may choose to spend a bit more time indoors.  I know how upset this will be making you feel but I still dont think you're doing so badly to be honest  :hug: :hug:

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2015, 00:28:18 AM »
Thats sad about the cats outside and hope it improves fast  :hug: :hug: :hug:

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2015, 19:33:49 PM »
Hello again.
Thanks for the reassurance but I'm still worried.
I've been watching a few  "My cat from hell" and I am pleased to see that our situation is nothing like any of what I've seen on TV but Mr Bubs and Katie are still not happy.
Sometimes I feel positive and see kittens being allowed to lie fairly near the oldies.
Relations between oldies I think are better. Certainly ok with each other outside. And comparing Mr Bubs' prey pounces on Katie to what I see on TV, I think it's just over boisterous frustrated play.
But the oldies would rather not be here.
Occasionally I can get the oldies to interactive play with kittens around or watch their antics but they are not relaxed and quickly lose the attention on the toy and look at the kittens.

Positive: today is wet. Katie and Mr Bubs and Bella were very close and totally chilled on the landing.
Negative: It's chucking down right now and poor Katie is lying in an empty hanging basket on the wall of a covered overhang at the front of the house. Mr Bubs is in a tiny utility that kittens can't get to yet ( microchip catflap)
I just want them all to be happy.  I so hope things get better soon.

Offline Susanne (urbantigers)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2015, 10:46:21 AM »
It sounds to me as though things are going really well.  Adult cats will hiss, growl and swipe at kittens - they don't have the need to interact and play like kittens do and dont' like their personal space being invaded.  I have a 7 months old kitten and a 9 year old cat.  Mosi my big boy still hisses and growls at little Kito after 3 months but he also mooches around with him, sleeps on the bed inches from him and indulges in nose and bum sniffing!  It takes time and when kittens are introduced to cats it takes a while for things to settle as it's a big upset for the adult cats.  I think patience and time are all that's needed.

Offline Liz

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2015, 22:53:43 PM »
I currently have 5 kittens at 11 months and 2 half blind little darlings who are 16 weeks with my adults and as long as the adults have space to get away then let them get on with it - the kittens come to bed with me as do about 12 of my adults the rest sleep throughout the house

I have a very multihousehold consisting of 7 Bengals, 2 Ragdolls, 2 Mau's,1 NFC and a fait few moggies and ferals and their pets my 3 Border Collies and have a happy home, all my adults are in at night and I have house cats only, indoor/outdoor and outdoor only

My adults tend to bop the kittens when they have had enough
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Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2015, 20:34:02 PM »
Hello,
Other than the two intense training days I mentioned earlier in the thread, the oldies have had freedom to come in and out during the day but when they come indoors in the evening, I block the cat flap for the night and keep oldies away from the kittens after a short time together. So all in all there hasn't been that much contact between the kittens and oldies over the last five weeks.
When I took the kittens for their second jab, the vet suggested I just let them get on with it and mingle but I've been reluctant to after what I've read about introductions.

So the set up at present:
Feliway diffusers around the house.
Zylkene tabs for oldies each day ( vet thought worth giving a go so got some online)
Kittens now restricted to front of house overnight but whole house during the day while oldies are outside most of the time.
Several cat trees, tunnels, cardboard boxes, furniture moved away from the wall to allow access behind if desired.
Water available in lots of locations
Several litter trays- only used by kittens. Oldies seem to use outdoors during the day.

Mr Bubs comes in and out of the house more, tail in the air, watches the kittens play and hisses and swipes when they come too near. I don't feel that the kittens are in any danger from either oldie. They seem to know their strength with their swipes.

Katie stays outside most of the day and I usually coax her in when I hear her bell- more often than not through an upstairs window.

I was more positive today as Katie came in this morning and spent a few hours indoors on a cat tree and let a kitten go in a hammock beneath her. Mr Bubs was out.

I'm on holiday at the moment so am around more trying to observe interactions. Mr Bubs is the more visible of the two. When I do see Katie in the garden and she comes to me, it's not long before Mr Bubs wiggles his bum and leaps on her back and she shrieks and runs off into another garden. He chases up to the boundary. Sometimes they run around playing chase around the summerhouse. It seems to be borderline play/ genuinely hostile. Both cats are on their guard acting nonchalent rest of time but observing the whereabouts of each other.

Indoors however, Katie instigates hostilities more often than not hissing and swiping at Mr Bubs and he stands his ground and she walks off.

I've never done the food either side of a door thing. They come in at different times. Mr Bubs comes in between five and six wanting his supper and Katie is several hours later. Also I had to stop the kittens being in one sole room as they were going bananas after a week or two and jumping up at the glass causing more stress for the oldies with the racket. Plus the cats could see each other anyway through the glass upper halves. Best compromise at the moment is splitting the house in two halves but even then the kitties create loudly in the morning wanting to be let out.

Debating whether to let them all have run of house tonight and do as the vet suggested. Let them sort it out between themselves. What do you over here think? You seem experienced in having multiple cats. Am I trying too hard? The vet thought they'd eventually get on but it takes time. You agree?




Offline hollycat

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2015, 10:53:32 AM »


You could always do a Jackson Galaxy and catify the house  ;D Put some shelves up for the older cats so they can get up high.

Offline Sue P (Paddysmum)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2015, 07:20:49 AM »


Am so sorry to hear things are no better.

What is the current routine - are you still confining the older two cats? 

Am wondering whetehr it may be better to go back to square one, keeping the youngsters confiend to one room and then trying the feeding either side of the closed door routine again for a week or so?

Any joy with the plug ins?  I havent used Feliway before, but used Pet Remedy plug ins when we introduced Moray to Tinks, and I think it helped somewhat.

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2015, 21:06:50 PM »
Well a week later and no better. Older cats hissing and swiping ( but gently) at the kittens. Older cats still not right with each other. All very tense here.
You guys sounded positive. Is this really normal? How long before I should see improvement? Kittens are now 15 weeks old. They've been here 5 weeks now.


Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2015, 19:58:49 PM »
Thanks  ;D ;D

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2015, 19:26:35 PM »
Straight

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2015, 16:56:08 PM »
I will try and explain LOL

Is the actual edge to your bath curved or straight, ie so without the tiled suround would any water stay on the edge or roll down onto the floor?

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2015, 14:15:30 PM »
Well I have read your post several times and don't get what you mean- sorry. I'm not at all gifted in the DIY direction!
The bath has a tiled surround so that we can sit on the edge/ keep soap and toiletries on or more to the point cats can supervise, walk round and dip toes in. That is where Mr Bubs got his name from. He was fascinated as a kitten with water and bubbles! Was named Bubbles and then eventually Mr Bubs when he seemed too grown up for such a silly name.

Back to bath. It's not flush with the surround. Slightly higher all the way round.

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2015, 13:47:47 PM »
LOve the pics can see clearly now  ;D

All gorgeous  ;D ;D ;D

I think that probably over time they two older cats will get back to normal but they will sort it out themselves.

A question not about cats  :shocked: but about your bath!  Does it have roll edges going down to the tiling surround?

Mine has roll edges and water on them drips onto floor but would love to put  shower protection around..............Lupin my cat has destroyed the curtains on what I made! but now too heavy for me to keep moving.

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2015, 08:28:04 AM »
Also..... when I read threads people mention lovely photos in places but I can't see them. Have checked my profile to see if I need to change a setting but couldn't see anything wrong. Any ideas?
Edit.  I can see pictures now.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 09:54:09 AM by pussinbooties »

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2015, 08:19:12 AM »
Thank you. I must admit yesterday was difficult. Relations are not right between Katie and her brother. I know they are also frustrated at being confined indoors two out the last three days ( I've let them out now)
Katie keeps doing a low quiet growl if anyone including her brother go near. Yet she will eat right next to him.
The top of the stairs is a prime spot and Mr Bubs spends a lot of time there. I did wonder if it was a form of bullying but I think he just likes it.
Katie wanted to come upstairs and get past him this morning. She hissed  and smacked him as she rushed past ( so I think afraid of him). He just looked a bit confused and settled back to sleep.

Mr Bubs isn't totally innocent though. It's not all one-sided. When I was gardening on Saturday, Katie was minding her own business and he jumped on her back as though she was prey. I startled them with my voice and it broke up immediately but a lot of tail swishing before one of them ( can't remember which- pity) went off.

I think there might be friction outdoors too. Katie and Mr Bubs are the kids of a feral cat ( I took in the stray mother in the winter not realising she was pregnant but had to rehome her as she was aggressive to my two- now departed from this world). This feral cat had been around at least a couple of years and fiercely protected his patch and friends ( my lot). I eventually got his trust at the end of April ( or he was too ill to care anymore- kept sneezing) and was able to take him to the vet to be neutered. Sadly he had FIV and I was told he needed to be put down. I was so upset. Anyway, now more of his offspring ( I think- they look similar) are feeling more confident and are marking our garden and Katie and Bubs are doing the same.

So a lot is going on in my poor kitties' lives. Is there anything more I can do? Will Katie and Mr Bubs regain their affection for each other?

Offline Lyn (Slugsta)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2015, 23:55:10 PM »
Hi and  :welcome: to Purrs.

It sounds as if introductions are going really well, it's natural for the older cats to feel 'put out' by the intruders. They are all utterly adorable  :Luv2:

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2015, 22:37:51 PM »
Oh my!  What an incredibly beautiful bundle of puds.  Really soooo yummy  :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2:

Offline bickhamwitch

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2015, 22:21:37 PM »
All gorgeous, but adore Bella.
Julie.

Offline hollycat

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2015, 19:44:01 PM »


Sounds like you are doing really well. It just takes time. They are all gorgeous and I like Mr Bubs, great name too  :rofl:

I have two black and white Hoolicats, Astrophe and Zoonie, they are 17 month old brothers

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2015, 15:21:18 PM »
Kittens

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2015, 15:20:30 PM »
Katie

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2015, 15:19:34 PM »
No, poor choice of wording. Utterly irreplaceable.

In America you can get Feliway Multicat refills. Tempted to buy for when these diffusers run out but guess there must be a reason not to sell in the UK. Anyone tried them? They are available on Ebay. I've got the new white style diffuser which looks the same but of course different voltage.

Will try pics again but I can only choose 'small' 'medium' or 'large' export.

Here's Mr Bubs who loves hopping in to warm emptied bath!

Offline Gill (sneakiefeline)

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2015, 14:54:24 PM »
Sounds to me you are doing really well and the older cats will come to accept them even if they are not cuddle buddies  ;D ;D ;D

I have two older cats and one annoying horror cat 10 years younger, my gurl cat hates him and will meep and hiss at him and the boy cat tries to avoid him as he is too gentle to want to play fight. Have had horror cat for nearly 4 yrs now!

Like Rosella cant see too much on pics as eyes not good and if you can try resizing pics at 900 on longest size, usually is withing the Purrs limits  ;D ;D

Just a point and not intended to be rude but you never replace a cat, just get a new one  :hug: :hug:

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2015, 13:16:47 PM »
Why thank you.
here's Katie mid yawn.

Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 11:54:54 AM »
and blimey your house is sparkly .........  :)

Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 11:53:46 AM »
The babies are devine  :Luv2: :Luv2: :Luv2: and Mr Bubbs looks lovely altho need a closer one as my old eyes can't make out any details  :( and looking forward to intros to Katie  :wow:

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 11:17:30 AM »
Mr Bubs eating near kitties

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2015, 11:14:54 AM »
Ok, hopefully this will work. Bella is the creamy one.

Offline Rosella moggy

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2015, 11:12:35 AM »
Feel free to email them to me RosellaMoggy@gmail.com if you like.

They have to be within a certain size. I usually resize to 800x600 or use photobucket.

You can use the "attach" section below to upload ...........

This link may help?  http://www.purrsinourhearts.co.uk/index.php/topic,13872.0.html

Offline pussinbooties

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Re: Introducing kittens to cats
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2015, 10:56:25 AM »
Thank you.
The older ones are Mr Bubs and Katie. Newbies are Bella and Poppy. Not sure how to add pics but will try.

 


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