Author Topic: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!  (Read 6954 times)

Offline coffeefilms

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2008, 12:31:20 PM »
Fascinating evolutionary process.

Why do so many cat books espouse the theory that it is not possible to breed from hybrid Scottish Wildcat/domestic cats? Why has this idea of infertility developed if it isn't true? Is it a case of "Giant Pandaritis"? ie that they choose not to mate?


It's probably one part being out of date and another part discouragement; wild wildcats introduced to captive reared wildcats during the early stages of the captive breeding program resulted in some truly horrific feline bloodbaths, even the toughest alley tom would be mincemeat to a pure wildcat, they really are little tigers; the matings seem to happen only when a female wildcat is in heat (they only come in season once every year) and just can't find anything better to mate with than a domestic. Setting out to force these matings in captivity is most likely to give you a pile of dead cats and a wildcat too stressed to even consider doing the business, it takes years to get them just to mate with each other because captivity is so out of character for them. More recently, legislation is getting more tightly enforced as well, someone trying to sell hybrids recently was very swiftly swooped upon by SNH and forced to give up a collection of various wild and hybrid cats to an official captive breeding campaign centre or face court, fines and jail time.

Go back about 10-15 years when no one knew any of this and most people assumed hybrids would be sterile as cross species hybrids are in most other cats, the wildcat's elusive nature means that all the serious research has only been carried out in the last 10-15 years, naturalists like Mike Tomkies insisted the hybrids were fertile all the way back to the 70's but he was ignored as some wild man of the Highlands, a shame as it could have done the wildcat a lot of favours if we started conserving it back then.

Domestic cats are only just a seperate species from wildcats, up until a few years ago they were still listed as a subspecies of the European wildcat; the divergence of species may have started 130,000 years ago but it still hasnt finished because they live right on top of each other, the wildcat better evolved for the wild lands and the domestic better evolved for human habitats, with constant interaction through the stray, feral and farm cat communities; just another case of us making a mess of the natural balance!
The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

Offline CurlyCatz

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2008, 11:57:43 AM »
I also find the fertility of crossbreds interesting IE F1 bengal males being sterile but the females are not.

Offline Hippykitty

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2008, 03:59:33 AM »
Fascinating evolutionary process.

Why do so many cat books espouse the theory that it is not possible to breed from hybrid Scottish Wildcat/domestic cats? Why has this idea of infertility developed if it isn't true? Is it a case of "Giant Pandaritis"? ie that they choose not to mate?
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Offline coffeefilms

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A bit more on the evolution; it wasn't the Egyptians that created our cats!
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2008, 10:58:21 AM »
Hi Hippy Kitty,

Recent research has changed our perspective on things hugely!

The Scottish Wildcat is untameable, the only cat to be so, possibly the only mammal. Crossbred offspring are absolutely fertile every single time; it was always assumed they were infertile but that has since proved wrong and it's that which is threatening the species.

Most other small cats are tameable if they're hand reared, all over the world people recognise how useful cats are to keep out vermin, so in the Peruvian rainforests they have tamed jaguarundi as pets for example.

The really interesting find, just a few months ago, was that domestic cats actually all descend from 5 asian wildcats that began to be selectively bred 130,000 years ago; the Egyptians tamed African wildcats and added them to the mix in big numbers but we actually have ancient Asia to thank for our companion cats today; 130,000 years! That's longer than the dog has been domesticated!

So, the long form evolution is;

First came the European wildcat, which descended from Martelli's wildcat about 2 million years ago. During ice ages european wildcats were forced to the warmer south and south west; the meditterranean was barely a puddle making the migration very simple. When ice ages ended some cats headed back north and carried on as usual, some stayed where they were developing different camoflage and body size to suit the climate, so the European is striped tabby very thick coat, whilst the African and Asian have very thin coats which are striped or spotted in the Asian.

Domestics were bred from Asians before the African came into being (it evolved about 20,000 years ago at the start of the last ice age we think), and the African heavily added to the mix by the Egyptians around 4000-5000 years ago, then spread worldwide by Phonecian traders.

The Scottish wildcat technically came along 9000 years ago as the ice age ended, sea levels rose and the english channel formed, isolating a bunch of European wildcats here, again they adapted to our climate, and with the heavy deforestation since the agricultural revolution the Scottish really formed adjusting it's behaviour from a forest cat to an all terrain cat, hunting literally everywhere and growing bigger and thicker coated.

Because they're all so closely related all wildcats and domestic cats can interbreed and the offspring are fertile, the wildcat is threatened across it's range by this.

Wildcats will always have injected some genes into the domestic genepool, perhaps being responsible for the earliest Norweigen Forest Cats or British Shorthairs for example, but serious ongoing breeding with other small cat species like Jungle cat is a more recent phenomenon to create breeds like the Bengal; the African wildcat is comparably very friendly, easily tamed and lived everywhere the Egyptians did so was a simple choice.

Hybrid Scottish wildcats turn up occasionally at Cats Protection places for rehoming, and when they're half and half they can adapt slightly to a domestic life, but tend to be very private, "moody" cats that spend most of their time outside, some are too wild and get returned after someone has verified it's part wildcat and not just an angry feral that needs some love.

I'm lucky to be in contact with a few of the scientists really working over this area; the discovery of domestic cats being 130,000 years old was very important as we now have a "domestic cat gene"; a particular gene ONLY in domestic cats, so we can take blood tests from any wildcats and know exactly how much domestic influence it has, and therefore whether it's suitable to rebuild the population, or simply a domestic stray to get neutered.

Pretty amazing we can figure all this stuff out today isn't it?

Steve
The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

Offline Hippykitty

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2008, 09:34:51 AM »
I admit to merely scanning this thread and being attracted mostly by the title. It has been my knowledge that the Scottish Wildcat is untameable, and that if you cross breed it with a domestic cat, the offspring is infertile.

On the other hand, the north african small jungle cat's kittens can be tamed, and if crossbred with a domestic, the offspring is fertile.

From this has grown the prevailing theory that the domestic cat was brought to Britain from Egypt by the Romans. The Egyptians tamed the jungle cat, which is, apparently, the ancestor of our domestic pet cat.

This in no way detracts from the beauty of the Scottish and european wildcat, but it cannot be the ancestor of our domestic. I'm sure that dna testing must have been carried out to check the similarities in the various cats' profiles.
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Offline sam x

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2008, 18:41:26 PM »
Well let me know when you do and we will sort somethink out.

Offline coffeefilms

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2008, 16:19:17 PM »
No boxes available yet, but it's high on the list of things to do!
The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

Offline sam x

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2008, 18:05:08 PM »
What a fantastic job you have, do you have any charity boxes?? if so im sure mine and Petes work would be happy to put a box on reception to help.

Offline coffeefilms

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2008, 13:35:30 PM »
We'll be partnering up with some other charities with similar aims to run a unified campaign later this year, and that will apply for a grant of some kind from someone like SNH or the Parliament to move things forward, people seem keen to support the idea just no one else had done it.

I'd be extremely happy to post updates as and when things happen, I'll make sure I don't bore everyone with too much though!

Steve
The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

Offline swampmaxmum

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2008, 19:05:34 PM »
Really good luck with your project Steve. Can you get funding from the Scottish parliament (or the EU)? I'll look forward to the DVD. I've only seen one Scottish Wildcat and that was in Edinburgh zoo ages ago when I was a youngster. They can certainly be told from a tabby when they open their mouth! You've made me want to go back to the Highlands now - in summer at least :)
Please won't you post updates as it's really fascinating.

Offline coffeefilms

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2008, 14:49:01 PM »
It certainly was a good day for Scottish wildcats in the media! Although the comment about telling one from a tabby is very good; could have done with some more details on that in the articles I think!

The main thing to look out for is the tail which is thick, clublike and has perfect bands around it with no dorsal stripe and a big solid black tip, it's flanks should be strong stripes with no or very few spots, and the head is indeed wider and flatter with a more substantial jaw and muzz; have a look at some of the photos on www.scottishwildcats.co.uk and you can see many of the differences clearly (there's also a video clip you can watch as much as you like! We'll be adding more soon!).

As an average Scottish wildcats (which are the largest wildcats in the world) are about 50% larger than a domestic, so males get up to about 7-8kg and females about 5 or 6. Really pure examples like those found way up in Sutherland can be much larger, one skeleton found was 4 feet from nose to tail which is a whole lot of angry wildcat and probably hunted deer, a recent sighting I had from there was from someone who's adult German Shepherd had literally had it's face ripped apart when it cornered one, the poor owner had to beat the completely unharmed cat off of her dog with a big stick! I hear the dog has since recovered, made friends with the family rabbit and stopped chasing wildlife entirely. Give wildcat their space though and they're no threat to anyone, they just are highly mistrusting of anything other thn themselves.

Due to their increased muscle mass they do have a gait a bit like a big cat which makes them appear bigger in video footage, and their hissing and spitting behaviour is much much more agressive; if you watch the video on the charity website you'll see one cat doing a little mock charge as he spits out a hiss, just like a big cat, keep in mind the cat in the video is a 9 month old captive reared kitten and you can imagine what a 4 or 5 year old wild tom is like! When they have their hackles up and ears back then do that to you it certainly makes you think twice about getting any closer!

You can see them in parks all over the UK; Highland Wildlife Park is particularly good as it has tree walks for the cats, even down here in Kent you can find them at Port Lympne, Wildwood and in nearby Sussex at the British Wildlife Centre, we'll be adding a full list to the wildcat website very soon, do check it out, let us know of any sightings (all our sightings will go into the SNH survey), feel free to pass around the video and let people know how endangered they are, the charity will be open for donations and membership in the next couple of months when the paperwork all clears; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk

Steve



The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

Offline Elaine

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2008, 20:27:30 PM »
I have seen them at Kincraig wildlife park and I possibly saw one in Kirkhill forest but may have just been a big tabby.  They are absolutely stunning.

Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2008, 14:49:43 PM »
To me they looked a bit bigger and chunkier than the domestic cat. Their heads also seemed larger and flatter. I really want to see one now :Luv:

Offline dolcetta46

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 14:44:28 PM »
What are their average size?  They may look similar to domestic cats (except for those eyes of the tiger! ;D ), but from the video and pictures, they appear to be significantly bigger but am I mistaken?

Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2008, 14:35:37 PM »
They were absolutly gorgeous :Luv:

Offline Gail Bengal Slave

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2008, 14:30:16 PM »
So that's where the tabbies get their cheekyness from  ;D

Stunning  :Luv:



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Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2008, 14:05:13 PM »
The report was mainly from the Highland Wildlife Park. The public are wanted to report any sightings when they are out and about during the next year. The thing is from a distance I do not think I could tell if the cat was purebreed or not.

Offline Dawn F

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2008, 13:06:27 PM »
there was something on radio 4 this morning

Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2008, 13:02:26 PM »
There is going to be a report on Luchtime 1.00 news BBC about Scottish Wildcats ;D

Offline coffeefilms

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2008, 18:52:12 PM »
Thanks, it's always nice to introduce them to people, they're so under-promoted and through things like the association website and Myspace I've seen an incredible amount of interest, look out for some stories in the news this week as SNH are officially announcing some new work (I won't blow their thunder by revealing it until they do!), I know the Times are doing something for sure and GMTV Scotland are running a piece tomorrow, I can't see it from here so if any Scots out there happen to be up let me know if it's a good piece!

Steve
The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

Offline dolcetta46

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2008, 19:03:33 PM »
Thanks all to you I was newly introduced to these magnificent creature.  I am so captivated.  At a glance they look like large domestic cats, but when you look at their intense look in their eyes, you see their special spirit of freedom and strength.  And to imagine them roaming about among those breathtaking landscape of highland...
I hope they will overcome the danger, with help of people like you Steve, and flourish.  Kudos to your hard work!! :hug:

Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2008, 15:06:14 PM »
Thanks thats a great help. Shame about Glenmore. We usually walk  in the ancient caledonian forest, we just love the wonderful trees and heathland. We have been lucky enough to see red squirrels there. We will try going out at night next time to see if we can spot anything.
Also will be visiting the Culrain area so will look out there.

Offline coffeefilms

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2008, 14:48:29 PM »
Hey guys,

To respond;

Highland Wildlife Park is a great place to see wildcats, they've built in tree walks for the cats who are normally very shy but because the walks are 7-8 feet up they come out very confidently where you can see them. Wildwood is a very nice little park set into a forest, they have a couple of cats there and had a kitten about a year ago as well; Port Lympne (one of the Howlett's parks) also has Scottish wildcat now and are in charge of the captive breeding program so that's also a great place to go and see them in Kent.

Seeing them in the wild is the big challenge, I've been told they're at the top of every British wildlife watcher's "to see" list! The problem is that the more populated and accessible the area, the harder it is to find wildcats; the extra people either scare them off, run them over or bring additional domestic strays that start to breed out the wild blood, so around the north of Glasgow and a lot of the developed Cairngorms (including lovely Glenmore unfortunately) you find mostly hybrid cats living wild or domestic strays that look a bit bigger than normal.

So, if you want a chance to see a pure wildcat you need to go off the beaten track as well as be very patient, places like Caithness in the far north or the remote west coast are good, and surprisingly the area to the south east of Inverness (Forres, Elgin etc) is quite undeveloped farmland with a lot of rabbits, decent cats are often sighted there and it's a bit more accessible, I'm also told the Angus Glens can be a good area.

Next you try and fill in some details; speak to locals like farmers, dog walkers, country workers, people out in the wild a bit, ask if they've seen any around regularly, and use a map to see what kind of areas may be good for wildcats nearby; they like a mixture of habitat combining farmland edges (for rabbits), natural forest, water and heathland out of the way of the tour groups or busy forestry tracks (see pic below). Go out and walk around and have a look out for any tracks (just like domestic cat footprints), and you often spot poop unburied and prominently displayed along overgrown pathways or natural mounds; they use it to mark their territory boundary so leave it uncovered and open to smell as much as possible! You'll occasionally come across clear animal pathways; a beaten down track amongst heather or a variety of hoof and paw prints along a particular muddy track, these are excellent places to focus on.



Hopefully you find a promising spot, then like a birdwatcher you set up a little hide or tent and spend some time just sitting there watching the world go by; you may or may not see wildcats but finding these remote areas and sitting around quietly will also give you a great chance of seeing red squirrels, pine martens, mountain hare, deer maybe even eagles or osprey and all of Scotlands other incredible wildlife.

If that fails, you use the same tactics hunters will use; wildcats are primarily nighttime animals so you go out at night around these areas with a flashlight and pan it around the trees looking for eyeshine; pretty much every animal gives off some kind of eyeshine but most people will recognise a cat's distinctive eye shape and head size, the unusual bright light often attracts their attention and because they can't see you behind it they're usually pretty calm about the whole experience, eventually they'll turn to walk off and then you can get a nice look at them by torchlight. If you don't feel too daft you can also make the noise everyone makes to pet cats, when you suck a little squeak of air through your teeth or lips to catch a cats attention; this is actually a sound that rabbits make, so if you are within earshot of a wildcat and make that noise with no other noise, it will probably come to investigate whether you're a potential meal.
 
Quite a lot of work and you obviously need patience, not only are they masters of not being spotted they actively avoid human presence because they expect us to attack, shoot or send dogs after them, one photographer I know spent almost two weeks on the west coast with about 20 remote cameras and didn't even get a glimpse!

I would recommend trying to spend a couple of days in one of these more remote areas no matter what, camp out if you can, if not just try and spend some time sitting quietly and watching for the movements of wildlife, as long as you pick a quiet and very natural area (like forestry plantations are an awful spot because there's no natural light so nothing lives there, you need genuine ancient Caledonian forest) you have an excellent chance of seeing a wide range of wildlife and bird life, staying on the tourist tracks gets you some beautiful views of Scotland but it's going a little way off that where you find the real wildlife.

I stress always dress properly and bring the right supplies; people die in Scotland every year going out on a sunny morning in a t-shirt and ending up in freezing fog and lost, and we had some hairy moments shooting where I was glad of the mountain of equipment we had to carry around staying out for days or weeks at a time; always pack a jumper, waterproof coat, some kind of food, an Ordnance Survey map, mobile phone and wear decent footwear for trekking!

Steve

The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

Offline alisonandarchie

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2008, 13:46:13 PM »
Steve just read your facinating post. You are sooo lucky to be working with these beautiful animals. We have Stayed at Glenmore Forest Park quite a few times but have only caught a whiff of male odour. We are visiting again in the summer and wonder if you have any tips to help us sight a wild cat. ;D
Will look at the sites to see how we can help.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 13:47:13 PM by alisonandarchie »

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2008, 20:26:58 PM »
Just found out from the link that they have them at Wildwood - just down the road from here  ;D
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23398076-details/The%20Scottish%20wildcat%20kitten%20saving%20its%20species%20from%20extinction/article.do

I can't see anything on their website.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 20:37:23 PM by Mark »
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Offline Team Svartalfheims

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Re: Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2008, 19:59:01 PM »
I have seen the Scottish Wildcats at the Highland Wildlife Park in Kingussie and had come across your website before when finding out more about them. I would absolutely love to see one in the wild, must be an amazing sight.

You've got my full support and I'll be buying a copy of the dvd when it comes out  ;D
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Offline coffeefilms

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Scottish Wildcats; the ancestors of all our beloved companion felines!
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2008, 16:36:53 PM »
I recently joined the board and was encouraged to write a little more about one of my interests. I'm a filmmaker and recently shot my first wildlife documentary on the Scottish wildcat, and now I'm a trustee for a new charity helping to conserve them, so here's a little bit about these wonderful creatures.


The Scottish wildcat is not a stray/feral/farmcat, it's a totally seperate species from our companion cats, a genuine wild animal just like a leopard in Africa; it's sometimes called "the tiger of the highlands". They were here long before we arrived and long before domestic cats had started to be bred, and lived alongside mammoth, cave lions, brown bear and lynx that have all since disappeared or been hunted to extinction, and once wildcats were all over the UK, but we eradicated them from England and Wales.

They're incredibly emblematic for the Highlands, many clans chose them as their leader's crest of arms and marched against the Romans and the English under the banner of the wildcat, go back far enough and some clans actually worshipped them almost as gods; perhaps odd when so many bigger, tougher predators were also around you might think?

Perhaps the defining feature of the Scottish wildcat is it's incredible spirit; it's infamously the only wild animal that can never be tamed and will take on pretty much anything if it feels genuinely threatened, they're only about 50% larger than a domestic cat, most of it muscle, but I recently heard of one getting in a fight with an adult german shepherd and leaving the dog in ribbons whilst the cat was unharmed, and until the 1950's these little guys were listed as man-killers; this is why the ancient clansmen respected them so much, that whole Scottish independent fight to the death for your freedom spirit embodied in a beautiful and very successful predator!

Wildcats were a very successful species of cat but today are widely threatened, only 400 wildcats remain in Scotland and they could be extinct within 10 years; hunting is partly to blame for this as it caused the population to be quite small in the first place, but the real threat today is irresponsible cat ownership; domestics and wildcats are closely enough related that they can mate and produce "hybrid" offspring; with so few wildcats around and so many strays wildcats are continually hybridising themselves into extinction.

So, it's very sad to see them almost gone but there is hope in captive breeding and the support of cat owners especially in Scotland (though it would be nice to reintroduce them to the rest of the UK too of course!), the most important thing is to let other Brits know that we really do have our own wildcat living here with us and it's everyone's responsibility to spread the word and encourage people to neuter their companions and take strays to rescue centres; any board readers across Europe, Asia and Africa should note that their own local wildcats are threatened by exactly the same thing and need just as much help.

I'm a trustee of a new charity currently setting up to raise money for ongoing conservation and public awareness and you can find a lot of info and really beautiful photos of the cats on there; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk

As I said I also shot a film which is coming out on DVD around summer time this year, with a big chunk of profits going back into the charity, you can see a short trailer for the film with the cats in it here; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats

We'll be putting together some more clips and teaser trailers for the film over the next couple of months!


And below is a couple of pics of Scottish wildcats just to whet your appetite. Hope some of you can check out the charity and give it some support in the year ahead!

Steve




One from the film by me!


From the Scottish Wildcat Association website, pic by Laurie Campbell



« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 17:48:20 PM by coffeefilms »
The Scottish wildcat film; www.coffeefilms.com/scottishwildcats
The Scottish wildcat website; www.scottishwildcats.co.uk
The Mid Kent RSPCA website; www.midkentrspca.com

 


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